<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Where the text started, historically, is irrelevant to how it should be structured, hierarchically, today. If we were building these two specs in parallel right now, then we’d be building the OIDC spec on top of the OAuth spec, just like Core was built on RFC6749/6750. There was discussion about structuring things exactly this way when we started work on the OAuth registration spec, but the IETF took too long (thanks to a few key parties) and this working group rightly moved on and defined it in whole. <div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Also note that OIDC also depends very directly on JWT, which wasn’t final at the time either, but the working group decided not to re-define it internally. Much of what went into JWT was originally defined by this working group, too. So the whole notion of “it started here” isn’t relevant to this discussion, or at the very least the argument is being applied very inconsistently.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Is there a compelling reason to not do a new spec, apart from not wanting to write the replacement spec? I understand that the errata process is not for this, and I’m not suggesting that we do that. I’m suggesting we write a new, smaller spec that obsoletes the current one. I think it could be written quickly and simply, with no normative changes.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> — Justin</div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 29, 2015, at 2:35 PM, Mike Jones <<a href="mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com" class="">Michael.Jones@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class="">OpenID Connect Dynamic Registration is the original spec. OAuth Dynamic Registration copied the portions of it that are relevant to generic OAuth, without
making any changes. That’s why you don’t have to try to diff – because there are no salient differences. You can just use the original spec.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class="">Yes, the OAuth spec adds some optional things, such as software_version and software_statement, but implementations don’t need to use them. If a profile, such
as MODRNA does use them, it should refer to them in RFC 7591 directly.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class="">We’ll be clear about these things in the spec itself, so developers won’t have to guess whether there are differences or refer back to this thread to have this
information.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> Best wishes,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> -- Mike<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""> Vivek Biswas [<a href="mailto:vivek.biswas@gmail.com" class="">mailto:vivek.biswas@gmail.com</a>]
<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 29, 2015 11:13 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> Mike Jones<br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> Justin Richer; William Denniss; <a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" class="">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a> Ab<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-ab] I'm planning to start applying errata edits to OpenID Connect<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">To be very honest as a developer, I find it quite confusing to read 1 concise spec and than trying to diff between the profile of the spec and the original spec.<br class="">
It makes lot easier to know exactly what has changed in the profile of the spec vs the original spec and implement only the piece that has changed.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal">-Vivek<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 10:54 AM, Mike Jones <<a href="mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com" target="_blank" class="">Michael.Jones@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class="">Actually, implementers don’t have to read two specs. They only have to read the Connect registration
spec. It’s complete.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""> Justin Richer [mailto:<a href="mailto:jricher@mit.edu" target="_blank" class="">jricher@mit.edu</a>]
<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 29, 2015 10:46 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> William Denniss</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> Mike Jones; <a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" class="">
openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a> Ab<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-ab] I'm planning to start applying errata edits to OpenID Connect<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">+1 to this — the Core spec doesn’t redefine how to do OAuth, but includes it by reference and example. We can do the same here.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> — Justin<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Jul 29, 2015, at 1:44 PM, William Denniss <<a href="mailto:wdenniss@google.com" target="_blank" class="">wdenniss@google.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">If there is duplication, implementors will need to read two specs, and manually diff them. Personally I dislike doing that, and prefer 1 clear authoritative reference.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Given we have clear definition of the layers, in that Connect runs on OAuth, I think it makes sense for the specs to be structured in that way too.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">For example, I think that the Connect Core doc would be a lot more confusing if it subsumed the entire OAuth spec. It's better to say "you already know (and might have implemented)
OAuth, here are the extra bits you need for Connect".<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Mike Jones <<a href="mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com" target="_blank" class="">Michael.Jones@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class="">I actually disagree that this makes things easier for implementers. Right now OpenID registration
is self-contained. People implementing it only need to refer to one spec. If we remove the duplication, people will have to keep going back and forth between two specs. Developers hate that.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> -- Mike</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class=""> William Denniss [mailto:<a href="mailto:wdenniss@google.com" target="_blank" class="">wdenniss@google.com</a>]
<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 29, 2015 10:35 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> Justin Richer<br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> Mike Jones; <a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" class="">
openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a> Ab</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-ab] I'm planning to start applying errata edits to OpenID Connect<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">+1<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">A revision that removes the duplication would help implementers. It's good to cleanly separate the OAuth and Connect layers, now that we can.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Justin Richer <<a href="mailto:jricher@mit.edu" target="_blank" class="">jricher@mit.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I can understand the rationale of not doing this during an errata action, but now that the IETF specs are available, what would it take for the WG to actually update the documents
as Torsten suggests? The OIDC registration draft could really be quite minimal and import RFC7592 and RFC7592 directly for most of its normative content. The OIDC draft only adds a few fields to the client model and values to some fields (like response_type
and token_endpoint_auth_method), but overall it isn’t any different.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I think it’s very unfortunate that the OAuth WG sat on this work for so long, otherwise we could have had it set up this way from the beginning. <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> — Justin<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Jul 29, 2015, at 12:37 PM, Mike Jones <<a href="mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com" target="_blank" class="">Michael.Jones@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class="">We’re not going to do major changes as part of an errata action, so we’re not going to remove the
now-duplicated content. That said, we will add a statement that the OpenID Registration spec is compatible with the OAuth Registration spec and that implementations are free to use features defined there such as software statements as appropriate. Would
that work for you?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> -- Mike</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b class=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"" class="">
<a href="mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net" target="_blank" class="">torsten@lodderstedt.net</a> [<a href="mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net" target="_blank" class="">mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net</a>]
</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b class="">Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 29, 2015 5:05 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> Mike Jones<br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" class="">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-ab] I'm planning to start applying errata edits to OpenID Connect<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">Hi Mike,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">good to hear.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">Regarding Dynamic Client Registration: Will you modify the OpenID Connect Spec to be based on RFC 7591? I'm asking because the OIDC Client Registration
could be strip down (e.g. by removing the definition of registration request/response). Moreover, this would allow the OIDC version to leverage software statements, which are required for the MODRNA work.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">best regards,<br class="">
Torsten.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">Am 24.07.2015 20:14, schrieb Mike Jones:</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I wanted to let you know that I plan to start applying errata edits to the OpenID Connect specifications. These edits will include:<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class="">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">Referencing the JOSE, JWT, OAuth Assertions, and acct URI RFCs instead of working group drafts</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class="">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">Registering the Connect-specific Dynamic Registration metadata values in the registry established by RFC 7591</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class="">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">Removing the warning about the Google “iss” value currently in Section 15.6.2</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Symbol" class="">·</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt" class="">
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt" class="">Addressing typos described in the issue tracker</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">If you know of other issues that we need to address as errata, please add them to the issue tracker at
<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fbitbucket.org%2fopenid%2fconnect%2fissues%3fstatus%3dnew%26status%3dopen&data=01%7c01%7cMichael.Jones%40microsoft.com%7c31bcba812779461de4dc08d2980df30d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=HXg%2bwHa8bJiF7SLAJUyFK0Lwp6SBXdWE27KLYYiXmHM%3d" target="_blank" class="">
https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/issues?status=new&status=open</a> using the milestone “Errata”.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Note that I’ll first publish the updated drafts to
<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fopenid.bitbucket.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cMichael.Jones%40microsoft.com%7c31bcba812779461de4dc08d2980df30d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=vcv4rTg9svF8fZYynqgEF7oV3N%2bEt2oVn0Tu%2bcrkJa8%3d" target="_blank" class="">
http://openid.bitbucket.org/</a> for review. Also, I think we should wait until <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2ftools.ietf.org%2fhtml%2fdraft-ietf-jose-jwk-thumbprint-08&data=01%7c01%7cMichael.Jones%40microsoft.com%7c31bcba812779461de4dc08d2980df30d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=Abm%2brWGKRUjm0nf0zVUsAIdo%2b47JvLs54T2WDVPat%2fY%3d" target="_blank" class="">
draft-ietf-jose-jwk-thumbprint</a> exits the RFC Editor queue and becomes an RFC before we call this second errata round done.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> -- Mike<o:p class=""></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p class=""></o:p></p>
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