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    Hi all,<br>
    <br>
    it's my impression that every particpant in this discussion has some
    threats and counter measures in mind but nothing is explicitely
    spelled out/documented. I repeat my statement that first of all the
    relevant threats must be documented. As always, there will be
    different measures to mitigated those threats and the WG should
    discuss/decide, which counter measures are backed into the protocol
    and which of them are just explained/recommended.<br>
    <br>
    I see open redirection as a potential threat. We use a global
    whitelist for post url's to mitigate it. Id token hints and
    pre-registered urls are another way of achieving the same goal.<br>
    Regarding XSRF: the logout request will terminate the session -
    where is the risk?<br>
    <br>
    regards,<br>
    Torsten.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 23.01.2014 01:51, schrieb John
      Bradley:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:0DE0AAE4-F7B7-40C2-A5F8-08B7989AE5AA@ve7jtb.com"
      type="cite">
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      One point that was maid in favour of allowing a client_id was that
      it might be useful in helping the idp look up the post logout URI
      to validate it.
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I don't know that it is actually easier than just indexing
        the URI itself.  </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Following a post logout redirect without a id_token even if
        it is registered may be a bad idea. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>John B.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        <div>
          <div>On Jan 22, 2014, at 7:19 PM, Breno de Medeiros <<a
              moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:breno@google.com">breno@google.com</a>>
            wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <div dir="ltr">The requirement that login be available if a
              login was not processed is incompatible with any form of
              'XSRF' protection of the logout endpoint.
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>I propose that we make id_token_hint RECOMMENDED,
                explain that IDPs MAY require it to be present to
                perform logout, but not add another mechanism based on
                client_id, which is solving no problem I am aware of.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>So if the IDP supports logout, it may specify
                id_token_hint required or not, or behave differently
                (e.g., require user confirmation if id_token_hint
                absent). You can add a discussion on security
                considerations.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Again, I am against adding another mechanism for
                id_token_hint, and I think that the current approach to
                make it RECOMMENDED is the correct one. I argue for no
                change except added discussion in security reqs.</div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 8:28 AM,
                Torsten Lodderstedt <span dir="ltr"><<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net"
                    target="_blank">torsten@lodderstedt.net</a>></span>
                wrote:<br>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                  .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                  <div>Hi Todd,<br>
                    <br>
                    this page would not necessarily have a client id.<br>
                    <br>
                    Regards,<br>
                    Torsten.<br>
                    <br>
                    <div class="gmail_quote"><br>
                      <br>
                      Todd W Lainhart <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:lainhart@us.ibm.com"
                        target="_blank">lainhart@us.ibm.com</a>>
                      schrieb:
                      <div>
                        <div class="h5">
                          <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                            style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt
                            0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                            rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                            <font face="sans-serif">Hi Torsten -</font>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <font face="sans-serif">> </font><font
                              size="3">We see the
                              need to trigger a logout from pages, which
                              did not previously process a
                              login (portal, landing page).</font>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <font face="sans-serif">Would your page have
                              a client_id available?
                               It's a requirement that the provided
                              post_logout_uri be registered.
                               I was trying to intuit how that would be
                              done given the current param
                              spec, in which the client_id was only
                              available (perhaps) as the "aud"
                              field of the id_token.<br>
                            </font>
                            <br>
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                                    width="223" bgcolor="white"><font
                                      face="Verdana" size="1"><b><br>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                        Todd Lainhart<br>
                                        Rational software<br>
                                        IBM Corporation<br>
                                        550 King Street, Littleton, MA
                                        01460-1250</b></font><font
                                      face="Arial" size="1"><b><br>
                                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="tel:1-978-899-4705"
                                          value="+19788994705"
                                          target="_blank">1-978-899-4705</a><br>
                                        2-276-4705 (T/L)<br>
                                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:lainhart@us.ibm.com"
                                          target="_blank">lainhart@us.ibm.com</a></b></font></td>
                                </tr>
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                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif"
                              size="1">From:      
                               </font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Torsten
                              Lodderstedt
                              <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net"
                                target="_blank">torsten@lodderstedt.net</a>></font>
                            <br>
                            <font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif"
                              size="1">To:      
                               </font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Todd
                              W Lainhart/Lexington/IBM@IBMUS,
                            </font>
                            <br>
                            <font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif"
                              size="1">Cc:      
                               </font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">"<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                                target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>"
                              <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                                target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>></font>
                            <br>
                            <font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif"
                              size="1">Date:      
                               </font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">01/18/2014
                              03:44 AM</font>
                            <br>
                            <font color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif"
                              size="1">Subject:    
                                 </font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Re:
                              [Openid-specs-ab]
                              end_session endpoint parameter specs</font>
                            <br>
                            <hr noshade="noshade">
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <font size="3">Hi Todd,</font>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <font size="3">I think your proposal to make
                              the id token hint required
                              if the post logout uri is present limits
                              applicability of the logout mechanism.
                              We see the need to trigger a logout from
                              pages, which did not previously
                              process a login (portal, landing page).
                              This would be impossible.</font>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <font size="3">General note: I think the
                              security consideration section
                              must discuss open redirection at the end
                              session endpoint. I assume registration
                              of post logout uri serves the purpose of
                              preventing this threat but this
                              is not documented.</font>
                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <font size="3">regards,</font>
                            <br>
                            <font size="3">Torsten.</font>
                            <br>
                            <font size="3"><br>
                              Am 17.01.2014 um 22:45 schrieb Todd W
                              Lainhart <</font><a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:lainhart@us.ibm.com"
                              target="_blank"><font color="blue"
                                size="3"><u>lainhart@us.ibm.com</u></font></a><font
                              size="3">>:<br>
                            </font>
                            <br>
                            <font face="sans-serif">Last week I filed:</font><font
                              size="3">
                              <br>
                            </font><font color="blue" size="3"><u><br>
                              </u></font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/issue/914/session-5-missing-client_id-parameter"
                              target="_blank"><tt><font color="blue"><u>https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/issue/914/session-5-missing-client_id-parameter</u></font></tt></a><font
                              size="3">
                              <br>
                            </font><font face="sans-serif"><br>
                              ...where I stated that a required
                              client_id parm was missing that allowed
                              for the verification of the
                              post_logout_uri value.  I've implemented
                              this endpoint, and I think that I see that
                              this parm may not be necessary.</font><font
                              size="3">
                              <br>
                            </font><font face="sans-serif"><br>
                              Section 5 of the session mgmt. spec says
                              this:</font><font size="3"> <br>
                            </font><font face="sans-serif"><br>
                              //===========</font><font size="3"> </font><font
                              face="Verdana"><br>
                              This specification also defines the
                              following parameters that are passed
                              as query parameters in the logout request:</font><font
                              size="3"> </font>
                            <p><font face="Verdana">id_token_hint</font><font
                                size="3"> </font><font face="Verdana"><br>
                                RECOMMENDED. Previously issued ID Token
                                passed to the logout endpoint as
                                a hint about the End-User's current
                                authenticated session with the Client.
                                This is used as an indication of the
                                identity of the End-User that the
                                RP is requesting be logged out by the
                                OP. The OP need not be listed as
                                an audience of the ID Token when it is
                                used as an </font><font color="#002060"
                                face="Courier New">id_token_hint</font><font
                                face="Verdana">
                                value.</font><font size="3"> </font><font
                                face="Verdana"><br>
                                post_logout_redirect_uri</font><font
                                size="3"> </font><font face="Verdana"><br>
                                OPTIONAL. URL to which the RP is
                                requesting that the End-User's User
                                Agent
                                be redirected after a logout has been
                                performed. The value MUST have been
                                previously registered with the OP,
                                either using the </font><font
                                color="#002060" face="Courier New">post_logout_redirect_uris</font><font
                                face="Verdana">
                                Registration parameter or via another
                                mechanism. If supplied, the OP SHOULD
                                honor this request following the logout.</font><font
                                size="3"> </font><font
                                face="sans-serif"><br>
                              </font><font size="3"><br>
                              </font><font face="sans-serif"><br>
                                //===========</font><font size="3"> <br>
                              </font><font face="sans-serif"><br>
                                I would reword these definitions to say
                                something along the following lines:</font><font
                                size="3">
                                <br>
                              </font><font face="sans-serif"><br>
                                post_logout_redirect_uri  OPTIONAL.  The
                                URL to which the RP
                                is requesting that the End-User's User
                                Agent be redirected to after the
                                logout has been performed.  The value
                                MUST have been previously registered
                                with the OP, either using the
                                post_logout_redirect_uris Registration
                                parameter
                                or via another mechanism.  If supplied,
                                id_token_hint MUST be specified.</font><font
                                size="3">
                                <br>
                              </font><font face="sans-serif"><br>
                                id_token_hint REQUIRED if
                                "post_logout_redirect_uri" is specified,
                                otherwise RECOMMENDED.  The previously
                                issued ID Token passed to the
                                logout endpoint as a hint about the
                                End-User's current authenticated session
                                with the Client. This is used as an
                                indication of the identity of the
                                End-User
                                that the RP is requesting be logged out
                                by the OP. If "post_logout_redirect_uri"
                                is specified, then the "aud" member of
                                this token MUST be a single
                                element, and MUST be the client_id to
                                which the specified
                                "post_logout_redirect_uri"
                                is registered.</font><font size="3"> <br>
                              </font><font face="sans-serif"><br>
                                Additionally, a decision should be made
                                as to whether a state parameter
                                should be included that can be
                                round-tripped via the
                                post_logout_redirect_uri.
                                 Either that, or the value of the
                                id_token_hint parm is returned via
                                the post_logout_redirect_uri redirect.</font><font
                                size="3"> <br>
                              </font><font face="sans-serif"><br>
                                The implication of this is that the
                                end_session_endpoint can be called
                                with no parameters, an id_token_hint, or
                                both id_token_hint and
                                post_logout_redirect_uri.</font><font
                                size="3">
                              </font>
                            </p>
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                                    width="221" bgcolor="white"><font
                                      size="3"><br>
                                      <br>
                                    </font><font face="Verdana" size="1"><b><br>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                        Todd Lainhart<br>
                                        Rational software<br>
                                        IBM Corporation<br>
                                        550 King Street, Littleton, MA
                                        01460-1250</b></font><font
                                      face="Arial" size="1"><b><br>
                                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="tel:1-978-899-4705"
                                          value="+19788994705"
                                          target="_blank">1-978-899-4705</a><br>
                                        2-276-4705 (T/L)</b></font><font
                                      color="blue" face="Arial" size="1"><b><u><br>
                                        </u></b></font><a
                                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      href="mailto:lainhart@us.ibm.com"
                                      target="_blank"><font color="blue"
                                        face="Arial" size="1"><b><u>lainhart@us.ibm.com</u></b></font></a></td>
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                            <br>
                            <br>
                            <font size="3">_______________________________________________<br>
                              Openid-specs-ab mailing list</font><font
                              color="blue" size="3"><u><br>
                              </u></font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net"
                              target="_blank"><font color="blue"
                                size="3"><u>Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</u></font></a><font
                              color="blue" size="3"><u><br>
                              </u></font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab"
                              target="_blank"><font color="blue"
                                size="3"><u>http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</u></font></a>
                            <br>
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                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  _______________________________________________<br>
                  Openid-specs-ab mailing list<br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab"
                    target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><br>
                  <br>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
              <br>
              <br clear="all">
              <div><br>
              </div>
              -- <br>
              --Breno<br>
            </div>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            Openid-specs-ab mailing list<br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><br>
            <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><br>
          </blockquote>
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        <br>
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    </blockquote>
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