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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It could come from Don but I think you’re underestimating your stature. People know who you are and that that you’re a straight shooter and long-time contributor.
If the board agrees that you should be the one to send it, then you have OIDF standing to do so.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think it coming from you would mean that there would be less chance of the reaction being “Who is this guy that doesn’t understand the IETF processes or what
value we provide”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">My view anyway…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> -- Mike<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Tim Bray [mailto:tbray@textuality.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 13, 2013 9:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mike Jones<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Draft note to IETF<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I don’t think my IETF connections add the slightest weight. This is coming from the OpenID Foundation and really needs to be signed by someone with an OIDF title. Why not Don? -T<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Mike Jones <<a href="mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com" target="_blank">Michael.Jones@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">It can’t come from me, because I’m viewed by some as the biased voice trying to preserve what I wrote.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">You have history with the IETF that none of us do, which gives the note more weight. You also haven’t
been involved in most of the niggling battles over features, so you’re more above the fray. So I really do think you’re the right person.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> -- Mike</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Tim Bray [mailto:<a href="mailto:tbray@textuality.com" target="_blank">tbray@textuality.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 13, 2013 9:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mike Jones</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Draft note to IETF<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I don't really object, but wouldn’t this do better coming from someone with an actual OIDF title, like you as chair or Don Thibeau? -T<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Mike Jones <<a href="mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com" target="_blank">Michael.Jones@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Tim – a slightly revised note follows. The working group agreed for you to circulate it privately
to insiders for feedback. We also need to run this by the board before formally sending it, since it’s speaking on behalf of the foundation. If you can let us know what kinds of informal feedback you receive, that would be great.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> -- Mike</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">To:
<a href="mailto:jose-chairs@tools.ietf.org" target="_blank">jose-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a>;
<a href="mailto:oauth-chairs@tools.ietf.org" target="_blank">oauth-chairs@tools.ietf.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cc:
<a href="mailto:iesg@ietf.org" target="_blank">iesg@ietf.org</a>; <a href="mailto:draft-ietf-oauth-json-web-token@tools.ietf.org" target="_blank">
draft-ietf-oauth-json-web-token@tools.ietf.org</a>; <a href="mailto:draft-ietf-jose-json-web-encryption@tools.ietf.org" target="_blank">
draft-ietf-jose-json-web-encryption@tools.ietf.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">Subject: Liaison statement from OpenID Foundation to IETF on JWT and JOSE</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">I’m writing on behalf of the OpenID Connect Working Group, in the OpenID Foundation. We have been
working for three years on specifying this identity-federation protocol. Our specifications have reached stability (what we call “Implementer’s Drafts”) and we anticipate a final vote and approval in the coming months. We’re confident approval will be forthcoming
since OpenID Connect is already in production at Google, a product has been announced by Ping Identity, a JWT product has shipped from Microsoft, and we expect numerous OpenID Connect and JWT deployments in the coming months.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">Our work is dependent on the JSON Web Token (JWT) and the JSON Object Signing and Encryption (JOSE)
specifications, products of the IETF OAuth and JOSE working groups. JWTs have been stable for some time, and code to parse and validate them is widely available in libraries for popular programming languages. However, progress towards an RFC in JOSE seems
slow, which is holding up the JWT RFC in OAuth, and we do not have a clear feeling when this work is likely to complete. As chartered, the JOSE documents were have gone to working group last call a year ago and this still has not happened.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">Unfortunately, it’s not practical for our membership to wait indefinitely, and thus our most likely
course of action will be to take dependencies on draft-ietf-oauth-json-web-token-08 and the -11 versions of the JOSE specifications or subsequent versions that are compatible with them when the time comes to publish our final specifications. It would obviously
be preferable for the JWT and JOSE RFCs to be completed in a timely fashion instead.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">We bring this to your attention simply because if some other organization were planning to lock in
a dependency on one of our earlier drafts, we’d like to hear about it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">-- Tim Bray for the OpenID Connect Working Group and the OpenID Foundation</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Brian Campbell<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 13, 2013 6:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tim Bray<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Draft note to IETF</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">While somewhat esoteric, it's probably important in this context to be accurate about the various documents and the WGs that are responsible for them.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt">Though JWT does depend heavily on JOSE work, it itself isn't a JOSE WG item. Rather it is a product of the OAUTH WG<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">
and, as such, asking the JOSE WG to do anything with JWT doesn't make a lot of sense.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">The broader issue remains though and I support the Connect group providing some encouragement to the
IETF towards progressing the dependencies. But we probably need to acknowledge that even within the IETF the document and WG relationships are somewhat complicated by dependencies.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Tim Bray <<a href="mailto:tbray@textuality.com" target="_blank">tbray@textuality.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">This should go to the JOSE WG chair, the ADs for that area, and the IESG</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">I’m writing on behalf of the OpenID Connect Working Group, in the OpenID Foundation. We have been
working for <insert-time-period> on specifying this identity-federation protocol. Our specifications have reached stability (what we call “implementor’s draft”) and we anticipate a final vote and approval in the coming months. We’re confident approval will
be forthcoming since OIDC is already in production at Google, <insert-other-deployments> and we expect deployments at <insert-other-predictions>.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">Our work is dependent on JWT, a product of the IETF “jose” working group. JWTs have been stable for
some time, and code to parse and validate them is widely available in libraries for popular programming languages. However, progress towards an RFC in jose seems slow, and we do not have a feeling when this work is likely to stabilize.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">Unfortunately, it’s not practical for our membership to wait, and thus our most likely course of action
will be to take a dependency on draft-ietf-oauth-json-web-token-08 when the time comes to publish our specification. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">We bring this to your attention simply because if some other organization were planning to lock in
a dependency on one of our earlier drafts, we’d like to hear about it. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">[I’m going to unofficially run this by some of my IETF-insider contacts, but thought I should sanity-check
the content here first]</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
Openid-specs-ab mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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