<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Maybe this is a bad
analogy.. but I look at this as similar to the SREG vs AX
extensions in OpenID2 (don't take the analogy too far:) The point
of the 'openid' schema serves the same purpose as SREG. If that's
good enough, then great. If more is needed, then an extended set
of claims needs to be defined (as was allowed via AX). My
preference for this extended set of claims would be to use an
existing schema syntax (if possible). While AX allowed for any
"schema" a few go adopted and that could play out in this case as
well.<br>
<br>
As for the issue of mobile phone number, verified status, etc that
is all very useful to an RP, though as a user I find it a little
scary that any RP could ask for my mobile phone number. I'd want
my IdP to give me some pretty good controls around that which
likely complicate the "consent UI":)<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
George<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/8/13 11:57 AM, Breno de Medeiros
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAAJ++qEskmY8UiW8_U1bVbL1pExyVzT+ZKRPYpSnny_Mtmop0A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I can't identify a clear trend in this thread for how to proceed.
On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Anthony Nadalin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tonynad@microsoft.com"><tonynad@microsoft.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">SCIM schema is not an agreed upon item yet, there are extension issues
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net">mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>] On Behalf Of nov matake
Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2013 8:45 PM
To: John Bradley
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Feedback on UserInfo schema
Yeah, I'm OK with using non "openid" schema.
However, in that case, I think the sentence
"The sub (subject) Claim MUST always be returned in the UserInfo Response."
should be
"If the requested schema is openid, the sub (subject) Claim MUST always be
returned in the UserInfo Response. If other schema is used, it MUST (or
SHOULD?) include sub equivalent claim."
On Mar 8, 2013, at 10:04 AM, John Bradley <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com"><ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com></a> wrote:
The discussion on the call was not against verification in any way but that
multiple phone numbers etc are all part of existing schemas.
For complicated provisioning we should be pointing to SCIM or some other
schema rather than incrementally adding to the simple account registration
schema that we defined for the user_info endpoint.
Once we start adding elements piecemeal it is a slippery slope. What about
work and personal mobile and home vs work landline. We also have Multiple
postal , home and work addresses each of those can also be verified as in
the Yahoo Japan case.
So I would not characterize the discussion as rejecting the notion of phone
verification only saying that the existing schema is intended to be as
simple as possible for account registration based on current RP experience
from Google Facebook and others.
If we are going to do something more complex it needs to be done as a proper
schema design and not tacked on to the current account registration schema
incrementally.
That leaves SCIM, portableContacts , EDUPerson and perhaps AD schemas as
possibilities. (some much better than others)
We need to have that discussion in a larger group. I prefer to have the
larger discussion rather than picking elements off one at a time.
John B.
On 2013-03-08, at 9:14 AM, Nat Sakimura <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sakimura@gmail.com"><sakimura@gmail.com></a> wrote:
As the chair of the WG, I have a bit of problem to state that "the working
group decided" here. WG is not just the people who have called in to a
telephone conference but the sum of the all people who is expressing their
desire.
>From the minute, I see that John Bradley, Mike Jones, Roland Hedberg, Justin
Richer, Brian Campbell, Edmund Jay, George Fletcher, Pamela Dingle was in
the call but those people on this thread, me, nov, Ryo, Chuck, and Torsten
expressing the desire in having mobile number were not. Given that I heard
this desire from another WG person, I suspect that there are more people
thinking the same. I gather that the consensus is not yet reached.
I would float the issue for a few more days -- till Sunday US time.
Please discuss.
Nat
2013/3/8 Mike Jones <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com"><Michael.Jones@microsoft.com></a>
FYI, the working group decided to keep only a single phone number, because
even that isn't typically needed for our design use case for the UserInfo
Endpoint, which is enabling easy interaction with basic RPs. In particular,
people felt strongly that we shouldn't be inventing new Connect-specific
phone number schemas; if people need more specific data, they should
probably use schemas that already exist, such as Portable Contacts or SCIM.
We *did*, however, decide to clarify how phone numbers with extensions
should be represented.
See <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/issue/800/">https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/issue/800/</a> for more details.
-- Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net">mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>] On Behalf Of Chuck
Mortimore
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 8:51 AM
To: Ryo Ito
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Feedback on UserInfo schema
+1 although I wouldn't constrain to SMS as the verification method, and
+simply say mobile_phone_verified
- cmort
On Mar 7, 2013, at 8:30 AM, "Ryo Ito" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ritou.06@gmail.com"><ritou.06@gmail.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Some services verify user's mobile phone number by sending SMS.
"sms_verified" claim may be useful if "mobile_phone" scope is defined.
This is the same as relations of "email" and "email_verified" claims.
Ryo
2013/3/8 nov matake <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nov@matake.jp"><nov@matake.jp></a>:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Does "phone" scope include "mobile_number" claim?
or do we need another scope for mobile phone?
I think we need "mobile_phone" scope.
On 2013/03/07, at 6:54, Nat Sakimura <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sakimura@gmail.com"><sakimura@gmail.com></a> wrote:
I am fine with it, though how to create "formatted phone number"
needs to be clarified. Is it just how the user entered or created
algorithmically? If the later, the OP needs to have translation
template for each countries as they widely varies. As to the syntax
is concerned, I prefer phone_number_formatted instead of
formatted_phone_number. Also, a +1 for making E.164 a MUST for the
machine consumption.
With respect to phone number, it just reminded me of the fact that
multiple sources expressed desire to differentiate land line phone
number and mobile phone number. Their characteristics as to the
binding strength to the subject is very different. Land line usually
is only bound to the "home / household" or "office location", the
mobile phone number is much more tightly coupled with the person /
subject. So, actually, you may not want to treat them as a single class.
So, in addition to phone_number, I would like to propose
mobile_number as well.
Nat
2013/3/7 Mike Jones <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com"><Michael.Jones@microsoft.com></a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
I would be fine with having both phone number claims.
"formatted_phone_number" could be the display form (just like
"formatted" is the address display form) and "phone_number" could be an
RFC 3966 phone
number. The "phone" scope would request both.
What claim names is Google actually using for these values today?
What do others think?
-- Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net">mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>] On Behalf Of Breno
de Medeiros
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 9:15 AM
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
Subject: [Openid-specs-ab] Feedback on UserInfo schema
Google returns phone numbers in two different formats: The
display-friendly displayable format that follows the user
preferences on how they see the number, and a standard-compliant form
for machines.
The UserInfo spec documents a 'phone_number' field that appears to
try to be both. It's the user 'preferred' phone number (indicating
some allowance for display-friendliness) and then only RECOMMENDS format
compliance.
Option 1. Define two fields: display_phone_number and
std_phone_number, where the latter MUST be in the E164 or RFC3966
(the latter deals with phone extensions as well).
Option 2. Clarify the current language by replacing RECOMMENDED with
MUST if the desire is to support machine use cases
Option 3. Clarity the current language by saying that this is for
display purposes only.
--
--Breno
_______________________________________________
Openid-specs-ab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a>
_______________________________________________
Openid-specs-ab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
--
Nat Sakimura (=nat)
Chairman, OpenID Foundation
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://nat.sakimura.org/">http://nat.sakimura.org/</a>
@_nat_en
_______________________________________________
Openid-specs-ab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a>
_______________________________________________
Openid-specs-ab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
--
====================
Ryo Ito
Email : <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ritou.06@gmail.com">ritou.06@gmail.com</a>
====================
_______________________________________________
Openid-specs-ab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Openid-specs-ab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a>
_______________________________________________
Openid-specs-ab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a>
--
Nat Sakimura (=nat)
Chairman, OpenID Foundation
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://nat.sakimura.org/">http://nat.sakimura.org/</a>
@_nat_en
_______________________________________________
Openid-specs-ab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a>
_______________________________________________
Openid-specs-ab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a>
_______________________________________________
Openid-specs-ab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
--
--Breno
_______________________________________________
Openid-specs-ab mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>