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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">That’s why I’m against a mandatory to implement as someone gets screwed in this case. With JWK you’re asking that people invest in a un proven technology when
they may already have proven technology that is working and proven, so let customer decide.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net [mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Justin Richer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 27, 2012 11:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Mandatory JWK Support for OpenID Connect<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Alteratively, why would you want to force people who don't have the same tools that you do to invest the years that you have in order to get a new protocol running when there's a simpler alternative that's fairly easy to build from the
ground up? :)<br>
<br>
-- Justin<br>
<br>
On 07/27/2012 01:36 PM, Anthony Nadalin wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If I have the tools already for x.509, why would I want to invest in another set of tools and have to work on them for years to get them to the point our x.509
tools are today? Not sure there should be a mandatory, there should be an equal option for both and you either implement one or the other oe both, but making JWK mandatory means everyone has to create new tooling and test the new tooling, etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> John Bradley [<a href="mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com">mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 27, 2012 10:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Magnus Andersson<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Anthony Nadalin; <a href="mailto:openid-connect-interop@googlegroups.com">
openid-connect-interop@googlegroups.com</a>; <a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">
openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>; Edmund Jay<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Mandatory JWK Support for OpenID Connect</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">There are some use cases where the use of PKIX trust relationships may be required. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In the EU there may be reasons to publish a x.509 cert so that the signature on the id_token is qualified digital signature for non repudiation at higher LOA.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I don't think anyone wants to remove the x.509 option. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The question is if clients or servers MUST implement both, or if only one format needs to be mandatory for servers what should it be.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For simple clients JWK is arguably (I say that knowing Tony will argue) simpler to build as it doesn't need ASN1 parsing. For servers x.509 certificates have existing tools.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Our design principal to this point is for pushing complexity from clients to servers.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">John B.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 2012-07-27, at 8:06 AM, Magnus Andersson wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">My name is Magnus I own a startup and I'm implementing OpenID Connect.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As an implementor: if the JWK-format is mandatory, exactly what added value does optionally exposing x.509 certificates to the client give? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As long as the JWK is mandatory I personally don't see how optional x.509 certificates would simplify anything for those who have existing Public-key infrastructure. They still have to handle the JWK case and map that to their PKI.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I recognize I don't know all the history in this matter. But could the option to choose only JWK (as it is already deemed mandatory) and skip x.509 be added, to balance out the current options? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">BR Magnus Andersson<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Solvies AB<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2012/7/27 John Bradley <<a href="mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com" target="_blank">ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com</a>><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Extracting a key from a certificate is not that hard, to make a JWK out of it. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We can likely automate that. People who want to support x509 are free to do that it is just not mandatory for the client. For the basic client using the code flow there is no MTI, for the implicit flow JWK is MTI if you want general
support. I suppose if a client just wants to talk to a specific IDP it could just do x509 if that is supported.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The options are.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">1 Client must support both and server chooses<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2 Server must support both and client chooses<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">3 Server must support one and the other is optional.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Tony are you saying you prefer 1 or 2, or 3 your preference but making x.509 the default.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">There are advantages and disadvantages to picking JWK as the default. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It is true that most common tools like openSSL easily produce self signed certificates.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On the other hand they expire and create run time issues later because some people may try and do PKIX processing on them. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This is a continual debate in SAML over raw keys vs certificates. Many federations think raw keys cause less support issues over time.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">John B.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 2012-07-26, at 9:43 PM, Anthony Nadalin wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">This creates problems with folks that already have a PIK infrastructure and want to use existing keys</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Edmund Jay [mailto:<a href="mailto:ejay@mgi1.com" target="_blank">ejay@mgi1.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 26, 2012 3:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Anthony Nadalin; <a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">
openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>; <a href="mailto:openid-connect-interop@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">
openid-connect-interop@googlegroups.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Mandatory JWK Support for OpenID Connect</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">This is in reference to the open issue # 633 at <a href="http://hg.openid.net/connect/issue/633/messages-42-jwk-and-x509-format-support" target="_blank">http://hg.openid.net/connect/issue/633/messages-42-jwk-and-x509-format-support</a><br>
The specs currently support x509 and JWK format for publishing public keys but is silent on which must be supported.<br>
There may be interop problems related to cryptographic aspects of OpenID due to lack of common support between client and server.<br>
<br>
-- Edmund</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Anthony Nadalin <<a href="mailto:tonynad@microsoft.com" target="_blank">tonynad@microsoft.com</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> Edmund Jay <<a href="mailto:ejay@mgi1.com" target="_blank">ejay@mgi1.com</a>>; "<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>>;
"<a href="mailto:openid-connect-interop@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">openid-connect-interop@googlegroups.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:openid-connect-interop@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">openid-connect-interop@googlegroups.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thu, July 26, 2012 1:46:41 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Openid-specs-ab] Mandatory JWK Support for OpenID Connect</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Can you provide the rationale or a pointer to the rationale?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> <a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a> <a href="mailto:[mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net]" target="_blank">[mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net]</a> <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Edmund Jay<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 26, 2012 11:58 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a>; <a href="mailto:openid-connect-interop@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">openid-connect-interop@googlegroups.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Openid-specs-ab] Mandatory JWK Support for OpenID Connect</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">This is to inform everyone that the Working Group has decided to make JWK support mandatory for both the client and server.<br>
Feedbacks welcome.<br>
<br>
<br>
-- Edmund</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">_______________________________________________<br>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Openid-specs-ab mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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