<html><head><base href="x-msg://487/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Just re reading part of that. The extra base64 encoded value is a HMAC of the encrypted content, not the integrity key itself.<div><br></div><div>This requires a extra period separated element in the compact serialization. I think that was why we were not keen on it.</div><div><br></div><div>It is more a serialization issue. Having the HMAC is arguably better.</div><div><br></div><div>John</div><div><br><div><div>On 2011-10-29, at 7:10 PM, Mike Jones wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">For what it’s worth, the JSMS spec required integrity for all encryption operations. You can read how they did it by searching for the word “integrity” in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rescorla-jsms-00" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rescorla-jsms-00</a>. So you wouldn’t get opposition from Eric and Joe for your proposal. (It does require, in the general case, specifying another key, however.)<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> -- Mike<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nat Sakimura [mailto:sakimura@gmail.com]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, October 29, 2011 3:06 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Mike Jones<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>John Bradley; <a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Encryption<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Let us bring it up in Taipei, then. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">FYI, I initially thought the same as you, but after some contemplation, I changed my opinion. <o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">My reasoning for HMACing with encryption was: <o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">1) Encrypt then hmac in nested operation, it will blow up the size. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">2) Encrypt then hmac in nested operation, how to exchange the key for the hmac becomes an issue. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">I cannot come up with a good solution for these as long as I keep them as two separate steps. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">If Encrypt and hmac is done as a combined operation to create a JWT, then both problems goes away. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; ">=nat<o:p></o:p></p><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 5:13 AM, Mike Jones <<a href="mailto:Michael.Jones@microsoft.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Michael.Jones@microsoft.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I’d bring it up on Taipei. In-person discussions on topics of this complex nature are more likely to generate consensus (in my experience) during face-to-face discussions than on e-mail lists.</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">As a technical point, I’d hate to see HMAC be required when nested Encryption and Signing operations are another perfectly valid mechanism for achieving the same ends.</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> -- Mike</span><o:p></o:p></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Nat Sakimura<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, October 29, 2011 1:11 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>John Bradley</span><o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Encryption<o:p></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">HMACing with CEK and have that in JWE spec as REQUIRED in case of CBC would be really nice. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Maybe I should post it in Jose list or bring it up in Taipei. <br><br>=nat via iPhone<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; "><br>On 2011/10/30, at 3:54, John Bradley <<a href="mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">On 2011-10-29, at 3:42 PM, Nat Sakimura wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><br><br>=nat via iPhone<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; "><br>On 2011/10/30, at 2:52, John Bradley <<a href="mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">The reality is that we are not going to be able to REQUIRE AES-GWC any time soon.<o:p></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">+1 though keep pressuring the implementations to support GCM etc. should continue. <o:p></o:p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">I think that libraries not providing padding oracles and other side channels is important to be clear about. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">AES-CBC is still something important to support. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">One possible combination is using zip<o:p></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><br>gzip I guess. <o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">JWE refers to it as zip, but it is deflate in a gzip container (not zlib). I am looking for some better wording for the JWE spec.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">with AES-CBC and not differentiating between padding and inflate errors. The CRC32 integrity check over the uncompressed source would foil the oracle attack.<o:p></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">That should make it significantly harder though it may not be impossible. <o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">There are a bunch of implementation details around error reporting that would determine that. one would be how you report invalid content type if someone removed the zip flag from the envelope.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">So perfect is hard, however we do have other tools like reporting signing and encrypting errors as a composite value where we encrypt a signed object.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">GWC also has some issues with long cypher texts so is not pure magic on it's own.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">John B.<o:p></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">John B.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">On 2011-10-29, at 7:17 AM, Rob Richards wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; ">Mike,<br><br>Do you have a patch for the support already? As long as there's no BC issues I might be able to get it into the 5.4 candidate before it's released. I had just started looking at adding support due to the xml enc issue but would be extremely helpful if you already had a patch. Also if you happen to know which openssl versions the patch works with as it appears there are a number of ways to use GCM depending upon the version.<br><br>Rob<br><br>On 10/28/11 12:18 PM, Mike Jones wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">We pretty much reached the same conclusion during the encryption working group session at IIW. The only problem, as Nat pointed out, is that PHP libraries, as currently distributed, do not support GCM (although the underlying OpenSSL libraries that PHP uses do). Of course, maybe we can use this as a forcing function to get PHP to support GCM by default (without requiring recompilation, which is possible now).<o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> -- Mike<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>] On Behalf Of Anthony Nadalin<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 9:13 AM<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Axel.Nennker@telekom.de" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Axel.Nennker@telekom.de</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:jbradley@mac.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">jbradley@mac.com</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Encryption<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">As I see it we need to require the GCM mode of operation (an authenticated encryption mode) for AES (moving AES-GCM from option to mandatory).<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>] On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Axel.Nennker@telekom.de" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Axel.Nennker@telekom.de</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 8:55 AM<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:jbradley@mac.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">jbradley@mac.com</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Encryption<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Here is the link to the paper:<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><a href="http://www.nds.rub.de/media/nds/veroeffentlichungen/2011/10/22/HowToBreakXMLenc.pdf" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.nds.rub.de/media/nds/veroeffentlichungen/2011/10/22/HowToBreakXMLenc.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">The authors recommend "One possibility to avoid our attack is to use a symmetric cryptographic primitive that does not only provide confidentiality, but also integrity. This can for instance be achieved by replacing the CBC mode of operation with a mode that provides message integrity. Adequate choices have for instance been standardized in ISO/IEC 19772:2009. We consider this solution as very recommendable for future versions of the XML Encryption standard. Unfortunately, this may bring deployment and backwards compatibility issues."<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><a href="http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail?csnumber=46345" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail?csnumber=46345</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">-Axel<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">From: John Bradley [mailto:<a href="mailto:jbradley@mac.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">jbradley@mac.com</a>]<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Sent: Freitag, 28. Oktober 2011 16:22<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">To: Nennker, Axel<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Cc: Nat Sakimura; Michael Jones;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Encryption<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">We don't encryption it, but we do support it.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">I haven't seen the original paper only analysis of it.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Mike should be able to get it.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">I don't think we should panic. I have known about this for a week or so.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">While the problem involves CBC it is not necessarily a CBC algorithm vulnerability in itself.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">The problem is likely the xmlenc API error messages and having them reported back over SOAP.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">As long as we are careful about not communicating too much in the error message and implementers protect against side channel timing attacks, JWE probably is OK as is with appropriate security considerations.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">I would be surprised if the attack works agains AES-CBC + RSA.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">It also probably is ineffective agains AES-CBC+keywrap.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Yes GWC is better that is why it was created.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">We need the paper before trying to fix things that may not need fixing.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">John B.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">On 2011-10-28, at 10:13 AM,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Axel.Nennker@telekom.de" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Axel.Nennker@telekom.de</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Do we actually require encryption in the openid connect standards? I thought we refer to JWS and JWS and that's it?<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Axel<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">-----Original Message-----<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">[mailto:<a href="mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">openid-specs-ab-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>] On Behalf Of<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">sakimura<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Sent: Freitag, 28. Oktober 2011 13:36<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">To: Mike Jones; John Bradley; Anthony Nadalin; Openid specs ab<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Subject: [Openid-specs-ab] Encryption<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">So I was going over the recent XML Encryption vulnerability.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><a href="http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/vulnerabilities/231901532" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/vulnerabilities/231901532</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">The flaw is that of CBC mode of operation combined with<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">unauthenticated encryption.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">It is a kind of padding oracle attack.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">We have two choices here:<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">1) Require authenticated encryption mode such as GCM<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">2) Require message authentication to be applied to the cipher text.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Ideally 1) should be taken as operational efficiency is much greater<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">than 2), but in reality we do not have support for GCM in many<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">languages.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Thus, while RECOMMENDing 1), we should REQUIRE HMAC to be applied on<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">the encrypted text (cipher text) in CBC mode.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Thus, we should make it REQUIRED to sig+enc+mac, instead of sig+enc,<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">and REQUIRE the verifier to first verify the mac and if the mac is not<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">correct the process should abend returning mac error.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Also, although same public-private keypair can be used for encryption<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">and signature in case of RSA, we should probably use two separate<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">keypair. That is safer.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Perhaps we would not REQUIRE it, but we should RECOMMEND it.<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">=nat<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Openid-specs-ab mailing list<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Openid-specs-ab mailing list<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Openid-specs-ab mailing list<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Openid-specs-ab mailing list<o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></blockquote><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt; "><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">_______________________________________________<br>Openid-specs-ab mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Openid-specs-ab@lists.openid.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab</a><o:p></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><br><br clear="all"><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Nat Sakimura (=nat)<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Chairman, OpenID Foundation<br><a href="http://nat.sakimura.org/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://nat.sakimura.org/</a><br>@_nat_en<o:p></o:p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "></p></div></div></div></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>