[Openid-specs-ab] Call for Working Group Adoption of OpenID Federation Wallet Architectures 1.0
Kristina Yasuda
yasudakristina at gmail.com
Mon Aug 19 14:11:39 UTC 2024
I missed the part that you are trying to address concerns by moving
problematic sections to the informative annex, sorry. That is confusing to
say the least. Please remove those sections entirely. They should either be
normative or not be in the specifications.
Also, please add an explicit out of scope section saying that there is no
intention to define openid4vc parameter extensions.
Best,
Kristina
On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 4:06 PM Kristina Yasuda <yasudakristina at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi All,
> It is honestly confusing that there are two thread happening on the same
> topic, one following the minutes (another one) and another following call
> for adoption announcement (this one).
> So I copy my comment on another email thread here, too:
>
> Can you please explain how your updated draft addresses any of Joseph's
> comments?
> https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-ab/2024-August/010370.html
>
> With all respect, but just adding a scope section that it is a profile of
> an OpenID Federation does not make it less of a profile of OpenID4VC specs
> without removing any of the sections that have been pointed out to be
> problematic.
>
> Thank you,
> Kristina
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 6:01 AM Michael Jones via Openid-specs-ab <
> openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Torsten,
>>
>>
>>
>> Per the Scope section of the document
>> <https://peppelinux.github.io/federation-wallet/main.html#name-scope>
>> that we added at Nat’s suggestion, the specification is first and foremost
>> a profile of OpenID Federation. The experts on Federation are in the
>> OpenID Connect working group, which is why the document was contributed
>> there. Also as described in the Scope section, we intend to work with the
>> DCP working group to define metadata parameters in the OpenID4VC specs when
>> they would be applicable both without and with Federation. Also, see my
>> response to Kristina
>> <https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-ab/2024-August/010395.html>,
>> which describes that the spec no longer defines any metadata parameters.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hopefully this alleviates any concerns you had.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best
>> wishes,
>>
>> -- Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* torsten at lodderstedt.net <torsten at lodderstedt.net>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 13, 2024 9:18 AM
>> *To:* Artifact Binding/Connect Working Group <
>> openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net>
>> *Cc:* Michael Jones <michael_b_jones at hotmail.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Call for Working Group Adoption of
>> OpenID Federation Wallet Architectures 1.0
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Am 10. Aug. 2024, 23:47 +0200 schrieb Michael Jones via Openid-specs-ab <
>> openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net>:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I don’t support adoption of this document in the Connect WG.
>>
>>
>>
>> <cut>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The gist of the discussion then was that the spec records what the
>> Italian wallet deployment is actually doing and so it is useful to have
>> these things written down now to enable interoperable implementations of
>> them (which did make it into the notes).
>>
>> Having a write up is very useful. However, I think a whitepaper or blog
>> post would be the appropriate format for that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Writing a spec to allow for interoperability is something different. It
>> requires discussions with other implementers to find a common ground, which
>> brings me to my next point.
>>
>>
>>
>> This draft defines extensions to the OID4VP and OID4VCI spec, something I
>> would feel more comfortable with in the DCP WG simply because that’s were
>> expertise and implementers of OID4VC are. Also, some of the proposed
>> extensions were proposed to the DCP WG already but haven’t been adopted
>> (yet). So it feels like this draft tries to create facts without a WG
>> discussion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Content wise, I‘m wondering why the specification includes a token
>> endpoint for the wallet provider. It seems it is used to issue wallet
>> attestations. I think wallet instance to wallet provider communication is
>> not related to interoperability, the design should be left at the wallet
>> provider’s discretion.
>>
>>
>>
>> best regards,
>>
>> Torsten.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> People on the call also expressed agreement with Joseph’s written
>> feedback that metadata values that are in the contributed draft that are
>> more generally applicable should be moved to the appropriate OpenID4VC
>> specs and then deleted from the Federation Wallet spec. But no one on the
>> call expressed the opinion that having written them down in the contributed
>> spec before their inclusion in other specifications should block
>> consideration of adopting the contribution as-is now. The call was well
>> attended, with 14 people participating, and no one expressed reservations
>> with starting the call for adoption.
>>
>>
>>
>> Joseph helpfully provided specifics on what metadata values he would
>> suggest moving to other specifications and other clarifications that could
>> be applied in his message
>> <https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-ab/2024-August/010370.html>
>> before the Thursday, August 8th call. We discussed that additional
>> feedback on that call, as recorded in the notes
>> <https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-ab/2024-August/010371.html>.
>> Giuseppe took the action item to reply to the call for adoption enumerating
>> the existing OpenID4VC issues about the metadata values currently specified
>> in the Federation Wallet contribution, which if resolved, would result in
>> them being added to the appropriate places in the OpenID4VC specs. And he
>> agreed to file new OpenID4VC issues to fill any gaps identified in what it
>> would take to define these metadata values there.
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree with Joseph that future versions of the spec should be clearer
>> about what is new normative text and what is repeating already normative
>> text in other specifications.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kristina wrote: “Please do not adopt this draft until all the changes
>> that define OpenID4VP or OpenID4VCI parameters that are not
>> currently defined in those specs right now are removed from this document.”
>> Speaking as an individual, this is a point where reasonable people can and
>> do hold different positions. Having them written down now for
>> interoperability purposes is useful. Moving the definitions of them to
>> other specifications where they are also applicable would be good. There’s
>> agreement on that. But whether adoption of the spec containing their
>> current descriptions should be blocked by not having first incorporated
>> them into other specifications – a process that could take a while – is a
>> fair question.
>>
>>
>>
>> Finally, I’ll observe that using Federation for trust establishment in
>> wallet ecosystems (the purpose of the draft) necessary involves topics
>> pertinent to both the Connect and DCP working groups, so coordination and
>> collaboration will be required. The good news is that that practical
>> coordination happens by having individuals active in both working groups do
>> so, and there are numerous individuals active in both. (For what it’s
>> worth, developing important specifications in coordination across multiple
>> working groups and organizations isn’t new for the OpenID Foundation.
>> Developing OpenID Connect involved participants working together in all of
>> the Connect, OAuth, and JOSE working groups.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks all for your attention to these important topics!
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Openid-specs-ab <openid-specs-ab-bounces at lists.openid.net> *On
>> Behalf Of* Joseph Heenan via Openid-specs-ab
>> *Sent:* Friday, August 9, 2024 1:00 PM
>> *To:* Artifact Binding/Connect Working Group <
>> openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net>
>> *Cc:* Joseph Heenan <joseph at authlete.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Call for Working Group Adoption of
>> OpenID Federation Wallet Architectures 1.0
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks Kristina!
>>
>>
>>
>> Just to reply to a specific point:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9 Aug 2024, at 13:14, Kristina Yasuda via Openid-specs-ab <
>> openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Moreover, in the minutes of a Connect WG call that happened after
>> Joseph's email with not supporting adoption say "[Openid-specs-ab] Call for
>> Working Group Adoption of OpenID Federation Extended Subordinate Listing
>> 1.0 All respondents so far support adoption", which could have been an
>> oversight, but please be precise.
>>
>>
>>
>> There’s unfortunately two different calls for adoption for Federation
>> extensions right now which I think has caused confusion - I’m happy that my
>> feedback was correctly record in yesterday’s minutes at
>> https://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-specs-ab/2024-August/010371.html and
>> I’m pleased to see that Giuseppe plans to look into them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>>
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>
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