[Openid-specs-ab] Please Either ABSTAIN or OBJECT from the Federation Spec Vote
Mike Schwartz
mike at gluu.org
Fri Jul 20 14:15:55 UTC 2018
> And there's nothing that prevents that, just like there is nothing that
> prevented me from working on HEART if I wanted to.
>
> Nick
Actually, you're wrong. And I'm pretty active in the OpenID Connect
community... I don't think anyone would say otherwise.
None of the design decisions on this spec were put to any kind of vote.
And as I pointed out previously, discussion was limited. It was a take
it or leave it design. Being presented at a conference is not the same
as getting a say in the process.
It was a closed process, where Jones/Hedburg might or might take your
suggestions, depending on their whim. It has the veneer of openness, but
it's not actually open. It's a one party vote, take it or leave it.
I can't start a spec and call it the "Connect AB Alternate Federation
Spec" and have it published here http://openid.net/connect/ So this
spec was given VERY special treatment, placement and promotion.
Let's not call this an open process when it's not.
- Mike
------------------------
Michael Schwartz
Gluu
Founder / CEO
mike at gluu.org
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nynymike/
On 2018-07-20 06:17, openid-specs-ab-request at lists.openid.net wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Please Either ABSTAIN or OBJECT from the Federation Spec
> Vote (Nick Roy)
> 2. Issue #1032: rp-initiated logout - proposal for client_id
> parameter (openid/connect) (Filip Skokan)
> 3. Re: Issue #1032: rp-initiated logout - proposal for client_id
> parameter (openid/connect) (Vladimir Dzhuvinov)
> 4. Re: Issue #1032: rp-initiated logout - proposal for client_id
> parameter (openid/connect) (Filip Skokan)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2018 18:05:45 +0000
> From: Nick Roy <nroy at internet2.edu>
> To: "openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net"
> <openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net>
> Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Please Either ABSTAIN or OBJECT from
> the Federation Spec Vote
> Message-ID:
> <CY4PR08MB35449C06D30AE97F5188DDFA83520 at CY4PR08MB3544.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> And there's nothing that prevents that, just like there is nothing that
> prevented me from working on HEART if I wanted to.
>
> Nick
>
> On 7/19/18 10:43 AM, Mike Schwartz via Openid-specs-ab wrote:
>> Nick,
>>
>> I thought you had a good idea to move federation to its own WG.
>>
>> So of course, I'm all for OpenID federations. And I'm also really
>> interested in this proposed design. And I appreciate the work done by
>> the current editors. It might be the best way. But I was never given a
>> choice of A or B. I was just given a choice to approve A.
>>
>> I think the community should get a say in this design of this spec.
>>
>> - Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>> it sounds like you aren't interested in working in an R&E working
>>> group.
>>> My understanding is that this WG will pursue R&E use cases for this
>>> profile. Since R&E is one of the largest users of multilateral SAML
>>> federation, I think exploring use of the OIDC Federation work in that
>>> space is a great next step.
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openid-specs-ab mailing list
>> Openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net
>> http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 08:10:50 +0000 (UTC)
> From: "Filip Skokan" <issues-reply at bitbucket.org>
> To: openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net
> Subject: [Openid-specs-ab] Issue #1032: rp-initiated logout - proposal
> for client_id parameter (openid/connect)
> Message-ID:
> <20180720081050.39616.17365 at celery-worker-105.ash1.bb-inf.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> New issue 1032: rp-initiated logout - proposal for client_id parameter
> https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/issues/1032/rp-initiated-logout-proposal-for-client_id
>
> Filip Skokan:
>
> I'd like to request that a parameter (optional or required?) client_id
> is defined for rp-initiated logout request.
>
> rationale:
>
> Currently the id_token_hint is the only way of identifying the client
> that's making the request. In scenarios where a client does not yet
> have an id_token but makes a request to authenticate which fails (e.g.
> due to being requested with essential sub claim through claims) the
> next step will be to trigger an rp initiated logout with a registered
> post_logout_redirect_uri but without an id_token_hint. This can be
> problematic for OP deployments with a high number of clients as it is
> not efficient or sometimes even not possible to iterate over all of
> them to see if this post_logout_redirect_uri is whitelisted or not.
> Hence the client_id parameter to make this lookup possible and
> efficient.
>
> Further processing may be defined such as if both client_id and
> id_token_hint are provided the audience of the id_token_hint must
> include the client_id etc.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 14:01:29 +0300
> From: Vladimir Dzhuvinov <vladimir at connect2id.com>
> To: openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net
> Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Issue #1032: rp-initiated logout -
> proposal for client_id parameter (openid/connect)
> Message-ID: <14898981-27c9-8a85-91c8-77c93a931278 at connect2id.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Filip,
>
> My concern is that relying on the client_id opens up post logout
> redirection to potential misuse.
>
> IMO the OP shouldn't be picking any redirections if cannot be sure, to
> a
> satisfactory degree, that it's the legitimate RP making the call.
>
> The ID token isn't really a substitute for proper RP authentication,
> but
> it's some way towards that.
>
> A JWS request might help here, but it's probably too much to ask from
> RPs.
>
> Vladimir
>
>
> On 20/07/18 11:10, Filip Skokan via Openid-specs-ab wrote:
>> New issue 1032: rp-initiated logout - proposal for client_id parameter
>> https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/issues/1032/rp-initiated-logout-proposal-for-client_id
>>
>> Filip Skokan:
>>
>> I'd like to request that a parameter (optional or required?) client_id
>> is defined for rp-initiated logout request.
>>
>> rationale:
>>
>> Currently the id_token_hint is the only way of identifying the client
>> that's making the request. In scenarios where a client does not yet
>> have an id_token but makes a request to authenticate which fails (e.g.
>> due to being requested with essential sub claim through claims) the
>> next step will be to trigger an rp initiated logout with a registered
>> post_logout_redirect_uri but without an id_token_hint. This can be
>> problematic for OP deployments with a high number of clients as it is
>> not efficient or sometimes even not possible to iterate over all of
>> them to see if this post_logout_redirect_uri is whitelisted or not.
>> Hence the client_id parameter to make this lookup possible and
>> efficient.
>>
>> Further processing may be defined such as if both client_id and
>> id_token_hint are provided the audience of the id_token_hint must
>> include the client_id etc.
>>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 13:16:52 +0200
> From: Filip Skokan <panva.ip at gmail.com>
> To: Vladimir Dzhuvinov <vladimir at connect2id.com>
> Cc: "openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net Ab"
> <openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net>
> Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Issue #1032: rp-initiated logout -
> proposal for client_id parameter (openid/connect)
> Message-ID:
> <CALAqi_8w2uvCd9R39YQpL-QxT7srCTvgpQvqkGXnrfo80owEFw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello Vladimir,
>
> The OP is advised to render a prompt for the end-user in those cases
> where
> post_logout_redirect_uri is not provided. And there's no mention of
> ignoring the post_logout_redirect_uri param if id_token_hint is
> missing.
>
> Currently:
>
>> post_logout_redirect_uri
>> OPTIONAL. URL to which the RP is requesting that the End-User's User
>> Agent
>> be redirected after a logout has been performed. The value MUST have
>> been
>> previously registered with the OP, either using the
>> post_logout_redirect_uris Registration parameter or via another
>> mechanism.
>> If supplied, the OP SHOULD honor this request following the logout.
>
>
> No mention of ignoring the value if id_token_hint is not provided.
>
> and under security considerations, the advise to prompt.
>
> The id_token_hint parameter to a logout request can be used to
> determine
>> which RP initiated the logout request. Logout requests without a valid
>> id_token_hint value are a potential means of denial of service;
>> therefore,
>> OPs may want to require explicit user confirmation before acting upon
>> them.
>
>
> Supplying a client_id does not change a potential extra OP policy that
> id_token_hint must be provided if it choses to do so, it simply makes
> post_logout_redirect_uri lookup possible in cases where loading all
> uris or
> clients into memory is not possible/is inefficient or can't query for
> all
> valid uris for the same reasons.
>
> Best,
> *Filip*
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 1:01 PM Vladimir Dzhuvinov via Openid-specs-ab
> <
> openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Filip,
>>
>> My concern is that relying on the client_id opens up post logout
>> redirection to potential misuse.
>>
>> IMO the OP shouldn't be picking any redirections if cannot be sure, to
>> a
>> satisfactory degree, that it's the legitimate RP making the call.
>>
>> The ID token isn't really a substitute for proper RP authentication,
>> but
>> it's some way towards that.
>>
>> A JWS request might help here, but it's probably too much to ask from
>> RPs.
>>
>> Vladimir
>>
>>
>> On 20/07/18 11:10, Filip Skokan via Openid-specs-ab wrote:
>> > New issue 1032: rp-initiated logout - proposal for client_id parameter
>> >
>> https://bitbucket.org/openid/connect/issues/1032/rp-initiated-logout-proposal-for-client_id
>> >
>> > Filip Skokan:
>> >
>> > I'd like to request that a parameter (optional or required?) client_id
>> is defined for rp-initiated logout request.
>> >
>> > rationale:
>> >
>> > Currently the id_token_hint is the only way of identifying the client
>> that's making the request. In scenarios where a client does not yet
>> have an
>> id_token but makes a request to authenticate which fails (e.g. due to
>> being
>> requested with essential sub claim through claims) the next step will
>> be to
>> trigger an rp initiated logout with a registered
>> post_logout_redirect_uri
>> but without an id_token_hint. This can be problematic for OP
>> deployments
>> with a high number of clients as it is not efficient or sometimes even
>> not
>> possible to iterate over all of them to see if this
>> post_logout_redirect_uri is whitelisted or not. Hence the client_id
>> parameter to make this lookup possible and efficient.
>> >
>> > Further processing may be defined such as if both client_id and
>> id_token_hint are provided the audience of the id_token_hint must
>> include
>> the client_id etc.
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openid-specs-ab mailing list
>> Openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net
>> http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab
>>
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