[Openid-specs-ab] Branding for OpenID Connect
Chris Messina
chris.messina at gmail.com
Wed Apr 11 01:52:00 UTC 2012
I also think that this is a bit confusing as it conflates these brands when
really they need to stand on their own.
OAuth is a very particular brand/community with a different org structure
than the OIDF. If anything, the OpenID Connect brand should derive from the
OpenID logo, rather than from the OAuth logo, even though there is a
technical relationship between the two.
I also think that more due consideration/investment should be given to the
OpenID Connect brand — though that's obviously not in my hands at the
moment. I appreciate Justin's efforts here, but think that this logo misses
the mark (pun intended).
A safer path (IMO) would be to simply use a word mark, like this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/factoryjoe/4609980463/
…though I understand that there may be a desire to have a more iconic
representation of this technology for use on stickers and the like… but
that, I think, would require additional design effort here.
FWIW, my intention was to release the OAuth mark under the "community
mark<http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2006/01/14/the-case-for-community-marks/>"
concept — and let the community enforce its use. This is different from a
copyright license of course… so, if I do represent the OAuth community, I'd
be wary if not opposed to using this mark in this way.
Sorry Justin!
On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Anthony Nadalin <tonynad at microsoft.com>wrote:
> We should not be promoting this or using this logo as this can cause
> OIDF legal issues now****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Nat Sakimura [mailto:sakimura at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 10, 2012 4:59 PM
> *To:* Pam Dingle
> *Cc:* Anthony Nadalin; Mike Jones; Richer, Justin P.; OpenID ABC Working
> Group; Chris Messina
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Branding for OpenID Connect****
>
> ** **
>
> I like the logo. Thank you very much Justin and Chris. ****
>
> ** **
>
> I would send it to the marketing committee to see what they can come up
> with. ****
>
> ** **
>
> If I were in the position to check it, I would first check if it
> constitute a derivative mark of the OpenID trademark, and the copyright and
> licensing status of the baseline OAuth graphics. ****
>
> ** **
>
> If it is deemed to be protected under our current trademark, that would be
> very good as it would not incur us additional cost as far as the trademark
> registering is concerned. ****
>
> If not, the cost issue will kick in if we want to protect it. My feeling
> is that it would be adequately protected under our current trademark but it
> needs to be seen. ****
>
> ** **
>
> As to the copyright status of the OAuth graphics is concerned, I
> understand that it is CC-BY-SA. ****
>
> (http://wiki.oauth.net/w/page/12238520/Logo) ****
>
> So there does not seem problem in modifying it like this one. ****
>
> The potential problem I see is that then the connect logo may become
> CC-BY-SA as well. ****
>
> If that is the case, I am not sure how the trademark (which is obviously
> non SA and ND) and this CC license intersection is to be dealt with. ****
>
> If Chris could license the baseline graphics to OIDF with CC-BY, then it
> may solve the issue, but it needs attorney consultation. It would not be a
> big $$. ****
>
> ** **
>
> In any case, this is a valuable community input and IMHO the marketing
> committee should look at and make a recommendation to the board. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Pam, could you kindly send it to the marketing committee so that they can
> deal with it? ****
>
> ** **
>
> Best, ****
>
> ** **
>
> Nat****
>
> ** **
>
> P.S. As far as I have check in US, JP, Wipo, OAuth is not trademarked,
> which I believe is a problem that OAuth community should deal with. So, for
> the logo, it is only the copyright that kicks in, and the copyright holder
> I believe is Chris. ****
>
> ** **
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 4:02 AM, Pam Dingle <pdingle at pingidentity.com>
> wrote:****
>
> It is a beautifully made and distinctive logo. I really like it! Mike
> and Tony are right though, we do need to look at the cost to the foundation
> that this could incur. If we choose to protect this logo, there will be a
> not insubstantial legal cost. If we choose not to protect this logo and it
> is used anyway, there are also possible consequences and costs. We need to
> make a case to the board as to why that cost is justified, and make an
> explicit and informed branding decision.****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Anthony Nadalin <tonynad at microsoft.com>
> wrote:****
>
> agree****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* openid-specs-ab-bounces at lists.openid.net [mailto:
> openid-specs-ab-bounces at lists.openid.net] *On Behalf Of *Mike Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:35 AM
> *To:* Richer, Justin P.; Nat Sakimura****
>
>
> *Cc:* OpenID ABC Working Group; Chris Messina
> *Subject:* Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Branding for OpenID Connect****
>
> ****
>
> As a board member, I believe that I must object. The trademark status of
> the OAuth logo is unknown. Combining the OpenID logo with it could
> constitute an act of infringement.****
>
> ****
>
> Furthermore, branding is a big deal. We shouldn’t be publicly displaying
> potential branding elements until there’s consensus, including from the
> board, that it’s the right thing to do, and that the board is committed to
> spending the tens to hundreds of thousands necessary to defend a new
> trademark.****
>
> ****
>
> -- Mike***
> *
>
> ****
>
> *From:* openid-specs-ab-bounces at lists.openid.net
> [mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces at lists.openid.net] *On Behalf Of *Richer,
> Justin P.
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:29 AM
> *To:* Nat Sakimura
> *Cc:* OpenID ABC Working Group; Chris Messina
> *Subject:* Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Branding for OpenID Connect****
>
> ****
>
> OK, taking the idea a step further and working with the shiny-logo file
> from Chris Messina (thanks, Chris!), this is what I've come up with. It
> takes the OAuth logo, replaces the text and central logo, and adds a
> bronze/orange tint to the shiny bits. Unless the working group objects
> specifically, I'm going to start using this in at least my own talks. ***
> *
>
> ****
>
> -- Justin****
>
> ****
>
> On Apr 5, 2012, at 6:23 PM, Nat Sakimura wrote:****
>
> ****
>
> <330.gif>****
>
> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 1:38 AM, Richer, Justin P. <jricher at mitre.org>
> wrote:****
>
> I like Nat's idea, but took it in a slightly different direction. This is
> just a quick take on a theme, for fun of course. But add some shininess to
> this and I think it's good! :) ****
>
> ****
>
> -- Justin****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> <OpenID Connect Logo.png>****
>
> ****
>
> On Apr 4, 2012, at 6:50 PM, Nat Sakimura wrote:****
>
> ****
>
> Just for the sake of fun... ****
>
> ****
>
> OpenID Connect on OAuth logo. ****
>
> ****
>
>
> http://nat.sakimura.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/openid-connect-oauth-logo.png
> ****
>
> ****
>
> It is symbolizing that OpenID Connect is on top of OAuth :-) ****
>
> ****
>
> Could not get the editable version of the shiny OAuth 2.0 logo, so suffice
> it to be with this. ****
>
> ****
>
> =nat****
>
> On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Nat Sakimura <sakimura at gmail.com> wrote:**
> **
>
> Need to check this with a patent lawyer but including our trademark
> probably will protect us. ****
>
> FYI, I just checked the US filing, and it is a STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
> on the string "OpenID". ****
>
> No logo. Internationally, the same. In France and in Japan, logo is also
> trademarked. Maybe some other countries as well. ****
>
> ****
>
> So that bottom line is, if we want a logo for OpenID Connect, which I do,
> we probably need to include the string "OpenID". ****
>
> ****
>
> The threat is real. There already is somebody trying to register
> SmartOpenID internationally. ****
>
> We need to take action, if it looks going through, to defend our right. **
> **
>
> ****
>
> FYI, the trademark often is a stronger IPR claim than the patent. ****
>
> ****
>
> =nat****
>
> ****
>
> On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 2:54 AM, John Bradley <ve7jtb at ve7jtb.com> wrote:***
> *
>
> The current openID logo is into many tens of thousands and the costs keep
> mounting. ****
>
> ****
>
> The problem is that unless we register and defend it, someone can take it
> and make it proprietary. ****
>
> ****
>
> There may be ways to have a derivative logo that cost less incrementally.
> I am not an expert on this. ****
>
> ****
>
> I do however see the bills.****
>
> ****
>
> John B. ****
>
> ****
>
> On 2012-04-04, at 2:49 PM, Justin Richer wrote:****
>
> ****
>
> Really, for something like this? How much has been spent on the OAuth logo
> to date? I understand that the OIDF may desire to take ownership of things
> like and make them official, trademarked, and enforceable. But what I'm
> after is much lighter than that: something recognizable.
>
> -- Justin
>
> On 04/04/2012 01:46 PM, Mike Jones wrote: ****
>
> I’ll just add that I know that maintaining a logo worldwide is a very
> expensive endeavor, requiring dozens of registrations, due diligence, and
> enforcement actions – best case tens of thousands of dollars, but
> realistically, often hundreds of thousands of dollars. Creating a new
> brand and logo is not something we should do lightly.****
>
> ****
>
> -- Mike****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* openid-specs-ab-bounces at lists.openid.net [
> mailto:openid-specs-ab-bounces at lists.openid.net<openid-specs-ab-bounces at lists.openid.net>]
> *On Behalf Of *Anthony Nadalin
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 04, 2012 10:11 AM
> *To:* Justin Richer; Pam Dingle
> *Cc:* <openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net><openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Branding for OpenID Connect****
>
> ****
>
> I think this is a matter for OIDF to take up sine I believe they currently
> own the OpenID logo or are about to own that.****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* Justin Richer [mailto:jricher at mitre.org]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 04, 2012 10:07 AM
> *To:* Pam Dingle
> *Cc:* Anthony Nadalin; <openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Openid-specs-ab] Branding for OpenID Connect****
>
> ****
>
> Agree completely that it should tie into the overall branding of OpenID,
> and as such should probably incorporate the line/circle/arrow logo and
> standard OpenID font, but with something more "connecty" about it.
>
> -- Justin
>
> On 04/04/2012 12:53 PM, Pam Dingle wrote: ****
>
> +1 for something distinctive for OpenID Connect, but that doesn't mean it
> can't be related to our overall brand.****
>
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Anthony Nadalin <tonynad at microsoft.com>
> wrote:****
>
> I defer to the logo gods on the status of the current OpenID logo, but I'm
> one for not introducing a new one or a different one as it's an overall
> OpenID Brand****
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: openid-specs-ab-bounces at lists.openid.net [mailto:
> openid-specs-ab-bounces at lists.openid.net] On Behalf Of Richer, Justin P.
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 8:50 AM
> To: <openid-specs-ab at lists.openid.net>
> Subject: [Openid-specs-ab] Branding for OpenID Connect
>
> As I've been putting more and more presentations together talking about
> OpenID Connect, I keep getting stuck on the lack of a distinctive logo for
> it. Particularly when I want to distinguish Connect from OpenID 2.0 and its
> predecessors, as they are quite different. OAuth has its black token, and
> OAuth2 has the shiny token adapted from that. The best that I could find
> was from Chris Messina's original blog post that introduced us all to the
> terminology of "OpenID Connect", here:
>
> http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2010/01/04/openid-connect/
>
> So I'm putting it to the group here: is there a better or more official
> image to represent this protocol? Should there be?
>
> -- Justin
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>
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>
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>
>
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> --
> *Pamela Dingle* | Sr. Technical Architect
> *Ping**Identity* | www.pingidentity.com
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - -
> *O:* 303-999-5890 *M:* 303-999-5890
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> - - -****
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>
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> ****
>
> ****
>
> -- ****
>
> Nat Sakimura (=nat) ****
>
> Chairman, OpenID Foundation
> http://nat.sakimura.org/
> @_nat_en****
>
> ****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> --
> Nat Sakimura (=nat) ****
>
> Chairman, OpenID Foundation
> http://nat.sakimura.org/
> @_nat_en****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> --
> Nat Sakimura (=nat) ****
>
> Chairman, OpenID Foundation
> http://nat.sakimura.org/
> @_nat_en****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
>
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> http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-ab****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> --
> *Pamela Dingle* | Sr. Technical Architect
> *Ping**Identity* | www.pingidentity.com
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - -
> *O:* 303-999-5890 *M:* 303-999-5890
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> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - -****
>
> *Connect with Ping*
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> Facebook.com/pingidentitypage****
>
> *Connect with me*
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>
> ** **
>
>
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> --
> Nat Sakimura (=nat)****
>
> Chairman, OpenID Foundation
> http://nat.sakimura.org/
> @_nat_en****
>
> ** **
>
--
Chris Messina
User Experience Designer, Google
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