<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I think Fen is thinking XDI rather than XRI.<div><br></div><div>XRI is a identifier format and discovery protocol.</div><div><br></div><div>XRD is a RDF like data query language that makes use of XRI abstract identifiers.</div><div>Think an advanced SPARQL with write ability.</div><div><br></div><div>XDI has a fine-grained identity based permissioning but still relies on oAuth or other PKI based authentication.</div><div><br></div><div>John B.</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On 2009-10-19, at 2:53 PM, Fen Labalme wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
You might want to look at XRI which is not tied to browsers. I haven't
been working closely with it for a while, but about a year ago we
spec'd a way to have shared data repositories with permissioning. I
think the DataPortability folk have been working on this, but since
OpenID stole the spotlight from XRI I'm not sure there's much traction
in this area yet (but there might be if more people ask these sorts of
questions).<br>
<br>
One thing I'll say is that the example URL you presented with
`&user=USER&pass=PASS` is very insecure for at least two
reasons: 1) you never want to have name and password in the same
message, as if anyone ever manages to sniff that one line, the user is
fully compromised; and 2) requiring the user to share their password
with the 3rd party web-service - or even the primary one - is
considered dangerous (as John said: "Users giving there passwords to
RPs is what openID is trying to prevent.").<br>
<br>
If you do want to take a look at XRI, note that what you really want is
XDI (XRI Data Interchange) - see
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=xdi">http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=xdi</a><br>
<br>
And to answer you final question, it may be just a matter of time, as
pieces of XRI/XDI have been finding their way into OpenID to help solve
problems as they come up, and (of course) new solutions are being
developed, too.<br>
<br>
hth,<br>
=fen<br>
<br>
<br>
Anthony Brassac wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:581e985d0910191013y223f48c6je0a6ccd8205af23@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">I see, what's unfortunate is that openId was perfect for
the needs of our web application. Unfortunately it won't meet the
requirements of our web service, so we may actually choose to write our
own system now (seeing as how even oAuth needs manual logging in at
some point too). Though I'm surprised that we seem to be the only ones
with this problem, is that a technical challenge to make openId more
web service friendly or is that just a matter of time?<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:40 AM, John
Bradley <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com">ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="">The user needs to approve the oAuth access somehow.
It only needs to be a web browser if you want to use openID for that.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sorry for the bad news, but openID requires a browser at this
point. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you are the authenticator for the account and not a third
party then there are lots of ways to solve your problem, but you will
have to stretch to claim they have any connection to openID.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>John B.
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<div>
<div>On 2009-10-19, at 12:28 PM, Anthony Brassac wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">But no matter what, even with oAuth I will
need to log in using a web browser at some point in order to get that
key/secret combination, won't i? Unless there are providers that offer
programmatic log in?<br>
<br>
I have a feeling we are going to end up having to write something
ourselves :S<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:54 AM, John
Bradley <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com" target="_blank">ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>You can have the user authenticate to the oAuth provider
via openID if it is a condition of the grant:)
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That may be the best way to do it anyway depending on how
the app is configured.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>John B.
<div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On 2009-10-15, at 12:00 PM, Anthony Brassac wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Thanks all for your replies, oAuth
looks like it could do it for us, however it seems management had
agreed upon using OpenID (research grant related I think), so I'll have
to see what gives. Anyway, I appreciate your support.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 1:47 AM,
SitG Admin <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:sysadmin@shadowsinthegarden.com" target="_blank">sysadmin@shadowsinthegarden.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Users
giving there passwords to RPs is what openID is trying to prevent.<br>
That is why passwords are not supported in the redirect.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
Hmm . . . minor clarification here, though: users giving passwords
*their passwords for the OP* (or otherwise transmitting "in the clear")
is not compatible with OpenID.<br>
<br>
If the RP wants to ask for another password (one local to that system),
e.g. for rarely invoked high levels of access, it *might* be compatible
with OpenID (depends on the exact use, but isn't automatically NOT
compatible).<br>
<br>
The description Anthony gave sounds vaguely like Kerberos (from the MIT
dialogue), but my mind is stuffed full of other things right now and I
get a bit of a headache just getting some meaning out of roughly half
of it (the rest seems beyond me tonight).<br>
<br>
-Shade
<div>
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