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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Very good suggestion, the local identifier/mutual registration point is one that needs effort, I would be glad to talk about some approaches here from the physical access control<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sal D’Agostino<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>@IDmachines<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://idmachines.blogspot.com">http://idmachines.blogspot.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> openid-general-bounces@lists.openid.net [mailto:openid-general-bounces@lists.openid.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Steven Livingstone Pérez<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 19, 2010 3:31 AM<br><b>To:</b> general@openid.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OpenID] "Nightmare" article on OpenID<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>I think most of that article was about issues in not properly developing a web application to use there's technologies rather than issues with the technologies (though I'd acknowledge things could be improved... though they haven't stopped me).<br><br>Perhaps it would be useful to have stater/primer architecture patterns and coding practices for working with OpenID in the real world. Everything from how to sport OP downtime to local identifiers.<br><br>Steven<br>http://livz.org<o:p></o:p></span></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 00:22:54 -0800<br>From: sknvn-openid@yahoo.com<br>To: general@openid.net<br>Subject: Re: [OpenID] "Nightmare" article on OpenID<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><br>Another very important point he raised is about the uptime. He was very happy with RPX until it went down a few times. <br>Essentially any time an OP has a downtime, RP is going to be down. Since there is no contract between RP and OP there is no SLA. The other issue is that different OPs will have very different uptime. So there is almost no way for an RP to deal with hundreds of OPs and one or the other may be down at any given time. A user may select an OP that is very unreliable and not be able to login to RP site.<br>Banks often have maintenance in the night and they may be down (as that is normal for them) every few days.<br><br>I don't see any easy solution to this as you are outsourcing your authentication. The other issue related to this and that rarely gets much attention is about the account recovery. If somehow user is unable to recover his account at OP, there has to be a way for any RP to allow them to recover their account at RP site. This is a must if a user has paid for a service.<br><br><br>Thanks<br><br>Naveen<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Johannes Ernst <jernst+openid.net@netmesh.us><br><b>To:</b> List OpenID <general@openid.net><br><b>Sent:</b> Thu, November 18, 2010 9:19:57 PM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [OpenID] "Nightmare" article on OpenID<br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Nov 18, 2010, at 16:11, Allen Tom wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>The author raises many important issues for consumer oriented websites that are trying to accept 3rd party logins, and I think we as a community should listen and take the author's feedback very seriously.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I strongly agree with Allen.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Even if the author was all wrong (he isn't -- I've run into some of the same issues) it clearly indicates that there is a lot of work to be done, at the very minimum documenting everything so well that few people can get it wrong. Nothing is a faster way into irrelevance than claiming the customer is wrong.<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Specially:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>1) Directed Identity / PPID (Pairwise Pseudonmous identifier) / non-correlatible RP specific identifier - is great in theory, but does not provide enough value to most RPs to justify implementing OpenID.<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Some people may remember me arguing "what about customer service" so many years back. If I can't tell my identifier to the customer service guy on the phone, how is it ever going to work? Amusingly, this article refers exactly to that use case<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>PPID identifiers have no history, no data, and no reputation - why would any RP want this? Also, as the author pointed out, changing the PPID based on the realm/return_to means that RPs will "lose all their users" if they ever switch their domain/realm. There are many valid reasons why RPs would want to have multiple realms/domains, or to change them around.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>2) username@provider identifiers are necessary for users to contact the RP via customer support and other out of band mechanisms. For all practical purposes, the email address is really required.<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If the user remembers their e-mail address but not anything else (like URL), that's a tautology.<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>3) We often talk about OpenID's value to end users, but we don't talk enough about giving value to RPs. The main hurdle to OpenID adoption is that RPs don't see enough value in OpenID, especially relative to other proprietary alternatives. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>For a really harsh critique of OpenID, I highly recommend reading Yishan Wong's (ex Facebook/Paypal) tirade against OpenID on Quora:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.quora.com/What-s-wrong-with-OpenID" target="_blank">http://www.quora.com/What-s-wrong-with-OpenID</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Allen<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Bill Shupp <<a href="mailto:hostmaster@shupp.org">hostmaster@shupp.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><a href="http://blog.wekeroad.com/thoughts/open-id-is-a-party-that-happened" target="_blank">http://blog.wekeroad.com/thoughts/open-id-is-a-party-that-happened</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>general mailing list<br><a href="mailto:general@lists.openid.net">general@lists.openid.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>_______________________________________________ general mailing list general@lists.openid.net http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>