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To quote Paul Graham on this ...<div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: verdana; font-size: small; ">"In the software business I know from experience whether patents encourage </span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: verdana; font-size: 10pt; ">or discourage innovation, and the answer is the type that people who like to </span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: verdana; font-size: 10pt; ">argue about public policy least like to hear: they don't affect innovation much, </span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: verdana; font-size: 10pt; ">one way or the other. Most innovation in the software business happens in startups, </span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: verdana; font-size: 10pt; ">and startups should simply ignore other companies' patents. At least, that's what </span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: verdana; font-size: 10pt; ">we advise, and we bet money on that advice."</span><br><br></div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html">http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html</a></div><div><br></div><div>Good Luck!</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/softwarepatents.html"></a>/steven</div><div>http://livz.org</div><div><br></div><div><br>> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 20:33:08 +0100<br>> From: nathan@webr3.org<br>> To: chris.messina@gmail.com<br>> CC: openid-general@lists.openid.net; sakimura@gmail.com<br>> Subject: Re: [OpenID] OpenID license<br>> <br>> To summarise then (with regards OpenID/OIDF specifications):<br>> <br>> All contributors have signed patent non assert agreements<br>> <br>> The signed agreements can (not) be found here http://openid.net/ipr/<br>> <br>> No patents from contributors covering OpenID specifications are disclosed.<br>> <br>> The non assert agreements protect contributors from each other (to an <br>> extent), they do not protect implementers.<br>> <br>> As far as you know the OpenID specs are not patent encumbered, but you <br>> advise implementers to access the legal situation with their legal <br>> council before writing a line of code, and if worried to go and license <br>> the relevant patent(s) or get patent non asserts.<br>> <br>> The patent(s) may cover parts of other existing or future protocol <br>> specifications from non associated third parties, and of course the <br>> implementations of those.<br>> <br>> The copyright on OpenID specifications mean they cannot be released <br>> under CC-zero licenses (or similar), the licenses which are compatible <br>> are unknown, Janrain has opted for Apache V2 but may still be infringing <br>> on patents (as all implementations may be).<br>> <br>> The 'OIDF hereby disclaims any responsibility for identifying the <br>> existence, or for evaluating the applicability, of any patents, patent <br>> applications, or other rights (including copyrights) claimed to be <br>> applicable to any Specification and will take no position on the <br>> validity or scope of any such rights.'<br>> <br>> The general advice is that because of the legal costs of a patent <br>> infringement case it's likely that anybody implementing will be <br>> infringing patents (if there are any, but they aren't disclosed) but <br>> they most likely won't be sued because of the costs involved.<br>> <br>> So, do I take it that I should just get on and implement the <br>> specifications, go for a license which keeps all rights reserved to the <br>> OIDF and hope for the best; ignore the patent matter, and if manages to <br>> get a business to the value where patent infringements would be worth <br>> going after seek legal council and worry about it then.<br>> <br>> Am I correct?<br>> <br>> Best,<br>> <br>> Nathan<br>> <br>> Chris Messina wrote:<br>> > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Nathan <nathan@webr3.org> wrote:<br>> > <br>> >>> Essentially the non-asserts are about protecting the creators of the<br>> >>> technology, and less about protecting the implementors. It's up to each<br>> >>> implementor to assess the legal situation with their own counsel (if it's<br>> >>> important to them) before writing a line of code. The contributors<br>> >>> obviously<br>> >>> can't do that for you, they can only assess their own legal situation and<br>> >>> act according to their interests.<br>> >>><br>> >> well I can't afford to do that, nor do I have the time so doesn't really<br>> >> leave me much choice I guess :(<br>> > <br>> > <br>> > Most people can't afford this (including me, personally) and implement<br>> > anyway.<br>> > <br>> > It's up to you, as I said, to determine your risk and proceed accordingly.<br>> > <br>> > If you can't or won't implement OpenID because you're concerned about being<br>> > sued for patent infringement, consider how much patent litigation costs and<br>> > then weigh that against the likelihood that anyone would really go after<br>> > anyone worth less than 10s of millions of dollars for patent infringement.<br>> > <br>> > Hell, if anyone is really worried about your implementation, you can always<br>> > go license the relevant patent(s).<br>> > <br>> > <br>> >>> Not today. Depends on the copyright license that applies. The default is<br>> >>> all<br>> >>> rights reserved, so until we specify otherwise, that's the doctrine that<br>> >>> applies.<br>> >>><br>> >> okay, assuming that Apache License V2.0 is compatible given that janrain<br>> >> openid implementations are released under it, any word on CC<br>> >> Attribution-ShareAlike (for an implementation).<br>> >><br>> > <br>> > Copyright license on code is separate from patent licenses. Janrain<br>> > libraries could still infringe patents, but you could at least create<br>> > derivative works or fork the libraries thanks to the copyright license.<br>> > <br>> > Just remember to keep those issues separate.<br>> > <br>> > Chris<br>> > <br>> > <br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> general mailing list<br>> general@lists.openid.net<br>> http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general<br></div> </body>
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