<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 22 July 2010 02:46, John Bradley <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com">ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><br><div><div class="im"><div>On 2010-07-21, at 8:39 PM, Melvin Carvalho wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 22 July 2010 00:59, David Recordon <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:recordond@gmail.com" target="_blank">recordond@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
To be clear, every contributor to these specifications signed an IPR agreement which covered both copyright and patent rights. This non-assertion statement can be found on pages five and six of <a href="http://openid.net/ipr/OpenID_IPR_Policy_%28Final_Clean_20071221%29.pdf" target="_blank">http://openid.net/ipr/OpenID_IPR_Policy_(Final_Clean_20071221).pdf</a>.<div>
<br></div><div>A longer reply once I've resurrected <a href="http://openid.net/ipr/" target="_blank">http://openid.net/ipr/</a> so that you can read many of the original signed agreements.</div></blockquote><div><br>
Thanks! <br><br>Would I be right to say the only condition that a contributor will assert a patent, is if someone else first asserts one against them?<br> </div></div></blockquote></div>From the IPR agreement:</div><div>
<span style="font-family: 'Segoe UI','Lucida Grande',Arial; font-size: 13px; color: rgb(68, 68, 68); line-height: 19px;"> If you file, maintain or voluntarily participate in a patent infringement lawsuit against me or my Implementation, then this personal promise does not apply with respect to any Implementation made or used by you.</span></div>
<div><font size="3" color="#444444" face="'Segoe UI', 'Lucida Grande', Arial"><span style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px;"><br></span></font></div><div><span style="line-height: 19px;"><span style="background-color: transparent;">So yes if you make any patent claim against a contributor, they can use any patents they hold to defend themselves.</span></span></div>
<div><span style="line-height: 19px;"><span style="background-color: transparent;"><br></span></span></div><div><span style="line-height: 19px;"><span style="background-color: transparent;">Otherwise they agree not to assert.</span></span></div>
</div></blockquote><div><br>Thanks John for the pointer!<br><br>One final question:<br><br>Supposing someone were to make an authentication protocol, say, usable in the browser. Not using the OpenID brand, but perhaps sharing some philosophical ideas. <br>
<br>If this protocol were released under an open source license, would it be safe from OpenID contributor patents?<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div><span style="line-height: 19px;"><span style="background-color: transparent;"><br></span></span></div><div><span style="line-height: 19px;"><span style="background-color: transparent;">John B.</span></span></div>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><div><span style="line-height: 19px;"><span style="background-color: transparent;"><br></span></span></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div><div><br></div><font color="#888888"><div>--David</div></font><div><div></div><div><div><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 3:51 PM, John Bradley <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com" target="_blank">ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Copyright on the spec won't protect you from patent assertions by people who are not party to the IPR agreements.<br>
<br>
The two issues are quite separate. Unless you intend to republish the specification itself I doubt that copyright enter into it.<br>
<br>
We should however address the issue.<br>
<br>
John B.<br>
<div><div></div><div>On 2010-07-21, at 6:40 PM, Nathan wrote:<br>
<br>
> To be honest, after reading that license snippet and the agreements I'm now more concerned than ever.<br>
><br>
> What I read is that there could be a load of undisclosed patents on these specifications, and that by implementing the specifications I could at some point be sued or chased for royalties.<br>
><br>
> [1] scares the hell out of me, and the chunk of text which basically reads 'we can all sue, and if you sue, I might too' does very very very little to make me feel any better about that.<br>
><br>
> So, what I'm looking for here is to see the 'CC Attribution Share Alike' license (or well known equivalent) on the OpenID specifications, (and if needed to cover *my* ass legally, patent disclosures, royalty free assertions and all related) - can and will you do this, yes or no.<br>
><br>
> Pease, just a simple yes or no, and if yes, when.<br>
><br>
> If not, I for one simply can't take the risk of implementing them.<br>
><br>
> [1] 'Patent Disclosures. There is no requirement or expectation by others that Contributor should disclose patents or patent applications that Contributor has reason to believe may contain Necessary Claims. OIDF hereby disclaims any responsibility for identifying the existence, or for evaluating the applicability, of any patents, patent applications, or other rights (including copyrights) claimed to be applicable to any Specification and will take no position on the validity or scope of any such rights.'<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
><br>
> Nathan<br>
><br>
> David Recordon wrote:<br>
>> The IPR policy includes a copyright license for them. I don't think that we<br>
>> have determined the exact text which should be included in the<br>
>> specifications. The Open Web Foundation provides guidance for their license<br>
>> at<br>
>> <a href="http://wiki.openwebfoundation.org/How_to_use_the_agreement#What_To_Include_In_The_Specification_Itself" target="_blank">http://wiki.openwebfoundation.org/How_to_use_the_agreement#What_To_Include_In_The_Specification_Itself</a>.<br>
>> We should use a version of that which matches the OpenID IPR policy.<br>
>> I'd like to see us just move to the OWF IPR policy which would help to<br>
>> address these sorts of issues in the future as well.<br>
>> --David<br>
>> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Nat Sakimura <<a href="mailto:sakimura@gmail.com" target="_blank">sakimura@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> Actually, I have asked the same thing long time ago when we started<br>
>>> translation project at OIDF-J since it was a blocking issue. We should<br>
>>> fix it ASAP, but that means OIDF needs to decide on what Copyright<br>
>>> license.<br>
>>><br>
>>> =nat<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 4:15 AM, Chris Messina <<a href="mailto:chris.messina@gmail.com" target="_blank">chris.messina@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>>> It seems worth clarifying this situation -- if only because I was<br>
>>> personally surprised to not see a clear license on the docs themselves<br>
>>> (copyright, specifically).<br>
>>>> Any reason why we haven't taken 10 minutes to make that change?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Nathan -- are you blocked by not having a clear [copyright] license on<br>
>>> the specs?<br>
>>>> Chris<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Jul 21, 2010, at 9:11 AM, Nat Sakimura <<a href="mailto:sakimura@gmail.com" target="_blank">sakimura@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> Apparently, it is full3978. It is written in the spec XML.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Having said that, I prefer to have additional license such as CC.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Also note that all the wiki contents are under GNU Free Documentation<br>
>>> License.<br>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:22 PM, Nathan <<a href="mailto:nathan@webr3.org" target="_blank">nathan@webr3.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>> Hi David,<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Thanks for the link, I actually checked that before I sent the mail<br>
>>>>>> yesterday, and I'm familiar with the patent non assert agreement.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> However, really, where's the license? I've tried looking everywhere and<br>
>>> the<br>
>>>>>> best I can find is this thread from 2 years ago:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>> <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/dataportability-public/browse_thread/thread/86a0351f525a53d9" target="_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/dataportability-public/browse_thread/thread/86a0351f525a53d9</a><br>
>>>>>> which explains things better, but still that thread ends with:<br>
>>>>>> 'It would take all of 10 minutes for the OpenID foundation to say "this<br>
>>>>>> spec is at-the-least copyright us and redistributable under the CC<br>
>>>>>> Share-Alike License" and drop that license onto the specs and on the<br>
>>>>>> site's IP policies page -- which I'm hoping they finally do.'<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> He's right, it would take all of 10 minutes, certainly not 2 years - so<br>
>>>>>> where is the license - what's stopping this from happening? I *really*<br>
>>> don't<br>
>>>>>> follow here.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> aside: on the intellectual property page you have 'These documents are<br>
>>>>>> listed below as well as available here.' But there's no list below and<br>
>>> the<br>
>>>>>> 'here' link returns a 'You don't have permission to access /ipr/ on<br>
>>> this<br>
>>>>>> server.'<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Best,<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Nathan<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> David Recordon wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> Hi Nathan, you can find the OpenID Foundation's IPR policy at<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="http://openid.net/intellectual-property/" target="_blank">http://openid.net/intellectual-property/</a>. All of the contributors to<br>
>>> those<br>
>>>>>>> specifications signed non-assertion agreements.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> --David<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Nathan <<a href="mailto:nathan@webr3.org" target="_blank">nathan@webr3.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> Hi,<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> I'm trying to find what license the following spec's are released<br>
>>> under:<br>
>>>>>>>> OpenID Authentication 2.0<br>
>>>>>>>> OpenID Attribute Exchange 1.0<br>
>>>>>>>> OpenID Provider Authentication Policy Extension 1.0<br>
>>>>>>>> OpenID Authentication 1.1<br>
>>>>>>>> OpenID Simple Registration Extension 1.0<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> I've searched them all for any mention of license, patent, royalty<br>
>>> and<br>
>>>>>>>> similar and found nothing at all?<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> Are the spec's and technologies all completely public domain, if not<br>
>>>>>>>> which<br>
>>>>>>>> license(s) are they covered by?<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance,<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> Nathan<br>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>>> general mailing list<br>
>>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:general@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">general@lists.openid.net</a><br>
>>>>>>>> <a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general</a><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>> general mailing list<br>
>>>>>> <a href="mailto:general@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">general@lists.openid.net</a><br>
>>>>>> <a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> --<br>
>>>>> Nat Sakimura (=nat)<br>
>>>>> <a href="http://www.sakimura.org/en/" target="_blank">http://www.sakimura.org/en/</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="http://twitter.com/_nat_en" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/_nat_en</a><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> general mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:general@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">general@lists.openid.net</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Nat Sakimura (=nat)<br>
>>> <a href="http://www.sakimura.org/en/" target="_blank">http://www.sakimura.org/en/</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://twitter.com/_nat_en" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/_nat_en</a><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> general mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:general@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">general@lists.openid.net</a><br>
>>> <a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general</a><br>
>>><br>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> general mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:general@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">general@lists.openid.net</a><br>
>> <a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general</a><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> general mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:general@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">general@lists.openid.net</a><br>
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