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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>To Andrew’s point <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“</span>However if we really
want this "all inclusive <i>of ideas</i>" community, it's very
important that people don't attack others personally when they don't like the
ideas that those others are sharing” <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Not everyone has as thick a skin as Andrew and Dick, and I don’t
think we want to intimidate members from contributing for concern about
personal attacks. Now that we have a draft policy, let’s get feedback on it,
then implement it. I do feel we should retain the right to give someone a “time
out” if they are abusing the privilege of respectful use of our lists.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'><br>
Brian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'>___________</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/pub/0/10/254"><span
style='color:blue'>Brian Kissel</span></a></span></b><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Email</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'>: <a href="mailto:bkissel@janrain.com"><span style='color:navy'>bkissel@janrain.com</span></a>
<b>Cell</b>: 503.866.4424 <b>Fax</b>: 503.296.5502<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
openid-general-bounces@lists.openid.net
[mailto:openid-general-bounces@lists.openid.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Andrew
Arnott<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 29, 2009 7:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Eddy Nigg (StartCom Ltd.)<br>
<b>Cc:</b> general List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OpenID] On the banning of Santosh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> On 11/30/2009 04:50 AM, Dick Hardt:<o:p></o:p></p>
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margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
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<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre>I would propose that we adopt the Microformats policy except for #16 (and number them!), allow Santosh back on the list, apologize for banning him, and direct him at the new policy and ask that he (and others) comply.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Eddy replied: <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Dick, myself am not famous for overly diplomatic tones
sometimes, but calling somebody a stupid, idiotic, prejudiced human being,
warrants some actions in my opinion. That the list should even apologize to the
offender seems to me ridiculous. If the participants don't value themselves and
their dignity, they deserve none.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>+~1 to Eddy. I don't think we should return injury for
injury. Everyone should be treated with respect IMO. But those who
refuse to treat others with respect don't need to be privileged by the
community with a medium by which their disrespect can be more easily
transmitted. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Dick also said:<o:p></o:p></p>
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margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal>I disagree with removing Santosh from the mail list. I
prefer a fully inclusive community.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Wanting a fully inclusive community, but in which community
personal attacks are allowed, is a paradox IMO. I think what we want here
is a useful forum in which many viewpoints on OpenID-related issues can be
discussed. We lose that when personal attacks threaten to encourage
respectful people with good ideas to leave the mailing list.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Dick again:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal>While I can empathize with the frustration of someone not
being what we consider respectful, <o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I'll be bold enough to say it was <i>very </i>disrespectful.
To say merely that "someone might not consider Santosh's comments to
be respectful" is an insult to those he flamed IMO. This isn't
really a correction to your words, Dick, as it looks from context that you were
speaking of the general danger of this rather than this specific case.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>I actually wasn't offended at Santosh's attack on me,
because it was obvious to me he spoke in the heat of the moment. However
if we really want this "all inclusive <i>of ideas</i>" community,
it's very important that people don't attack others personally when they don't
like the ideas that those others are sharing. <o:p></o:p></p>
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