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<DIV><SPAN class=142565719-29112009><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial>+1</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=142565719-29112009><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
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<DIV><SPAN class=142565719-29112009><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial>-dave</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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dir=ltr>
<DIV dir=ltr class=OutlookMessageHeader align=left><FONT size=2
face=Tahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
openid-general-bounces@lists.openid.net
[mailto:openid-general-bounces@lists.openid.net]<B>On Behalf Of </B>DeWitt
Clinton<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 29, 2009 11:43 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
sappenin@gmail.com<BR><B>Cc:</B> board@lists.openid.net;
general@openid.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [OpenID] On the banning of
Santosh<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>David,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Regarding the your first point, Santosh called someone here "<SPAN
style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px"
class=Apple-style-span>a stupid, idiotic, prejudiced human being." An
unprovoked attack, and just the latest incident in a long, long pattern of
similar slurs.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="arial, sans-serif"><SPAN
style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="arial, sans-serif"><SPAN
style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" class=Apple-style-span>If we're going to
tolerate that behavior here, I'll take my time and attention
elsewhere.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="arial, sans-serif"><SPAN
style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="arial, sans-serif"><SPAN
style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" class=Apple-style-span>This has absolutely
nothing to do with the points Santosh is trying to make (some of which I
actually enjoy reading). It has everything to do with creating an
environment in which people can
collaborate successfully.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=Apple-style-span face="arial, sans-serif"><SPAN
style="BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse"
class=Apple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Thank you to David Recordon for actually doing something and not just
turning a blind eye to inappropriate behavior. If people insulted each
other this way at a conference or in a meeting they'd be asked to leave until
they cooled off (or more likely, asked not to return at all). We
shouldn't condone equally disruptive conduct here just because we're
online.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>-DeWitt</DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 11:02 AM, David Fuelling <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:sappenin@gmail.com">sappenin@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>David,<BR><BR>I strongly disagree with your banning of
Santosh, if even only for 30 days. Here's why:<BR><BR>
<OL>
<LI>Santosh's "offenses" may seem [insert negative adjective here], but
they don't warrant a ban. Some people construed his remarks a
"disrespectful", but this is a relative term. If Santosh feels some
people are stupid, I believe he should be free to voice that
opinion. The person being called stupid is free to disagree or
ignore. Are we really so thin-skinned that we can't handle somebody
describing us with a term that we don't like? <BR><BR>
<LI>This sets a dangerous precedent. Because a few people chirped in
and said they wanted him gone (and you happened to agree), he's now
gone? I respect all of the work you've put into OpenID (especially
like setting up these lists), but I don't think that people should be
banned for trying to defend themselves, even if it's in an ungraceful
way. I do think that there should be a clear OIDF policy here (for
things like spam), but in general I would argue for a policy of freedom --
let people say what they will, no matter how "disrespectful" because one
person's "noise" is another person's "signal".<BR><BR>
<LI>Politeness as a bar for list participation is a bad idea -- the whole
idea of politeness is murky, and sometimes being polite discourages
technical debate. Besides, who of use should be the one defining
what is polite and what is not? I would argue nobody should be given
that responsibility nor that authority.<BR><BR>
<LI>Finally, what of the people on this list who have responded to Santosh
by calling him a variety of names, including "disrespectful"? Should
they not be banned as well, for isn't it "disrespectful" to call somebody
"disrespectful"? </LI></OL><BR>I respectfully request that you un-ban
Santosh from this list immediately so we can put this episode behind
us. If there are those on this list who do not like what Santosh has
to say, then they are free to ignore his words (though to my above points, I
haven't seen much of this happening lately).<BR><BR>Sincerely,<BR><BR>David
Fuelling<BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote><A href="mailto:sappenin@gmail.com"
target=_blank>sappenin@gmail.com</A><BR><BR><BR><BR>On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at
7:06 PM, David Recordon <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:recordond@gmail.com"
target=_blank>recordond@gmail.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Having been one of the creators of this list, I've
banned Santosh and will remove that ban in 30 days. Santosh, many
people – myself included – have very politely asked you to think about
your postings within this community and to be more respectful.
Obviously you've continued to ignore us.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>John, MarkMail has a bunch of awesome analysis tools for many
different open source mailing lists. <A
href="http://markmail.org/search/?q=openid"
target=_blank>http://markmail.org/search/?q=openid</A><BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>--David
<DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>general
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