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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I am not saying this is not a creative idea. I’m the one
who originally suggested it (in what feels like ages ago in this never-ending
debate). But it is just wrong to impose a new semantic meaning on an element
with very clear semantic meaning. A DNS *<b>record</b>* isn’t a DNS *<b>concept</b>*.
This would be an abuse of a well-define URI scheme, and will only work if
viewed within the narrow context of the host-meta document. There are easier options
for making host-meta use a URI that are as unattractive but less abusive (such
as using a URN, a well-known http URI prefix, or a semweb # signifier).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In addition, host-meta needs to support multiple hosts which is
not possible with a single <Subject> (and no <Alias> is not
applicable for that).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It really is time to put this to rest and move on. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>EHL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Peter Davis
[mailto:peter.davis@neustar.biz] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 09, 2009 8:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Eran Hammer-Lahav<br>
<b>Cc:</b> John Panzer; openid-general@lists.openid.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OpenID] host-meta and "acct:"<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>A dns URI should be able to, given proper profiling,
unambiguously references a host (which in dns scheme terms, the example
provided intimates a dns query for 'A' records). i think that is the closest
existing counterpart to what you are trying to express here, where a host is
likely to be profiled for use here as a set of IP addresses and/or CNAMEs.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>Not sure it would be desirable to define a different concept
of host, given the close similarity to the concept you are looking for and the
intentions of the dns scheme. This may also give you some flexibility in
describing host in the SMTP sense:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>dns:example.org?type=MX<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>are there requirements which would allow the definition of a
phantom host, one that does not exist in the DNS, but has meaning here?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>=peterd<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>On Nov 9, 2009, at 11:06 AM, Eran Hammer-Lahav wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Not really.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>DNS URIs are defined to be about the DNS *<b>records</b>* not
about what the records point to or mean. It is a pointer into the DNS system.
An XRD with a DNS URI subject would express information about that record such
as who updated it and when, and potentially some security related properties. I
don’t really see any value in such an XRD at this point (since DNS is a
self containing data source), but that’s what such an XRD would mean semantically.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>EHL</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a
href="mailto:openid-general-bounces@lists.openid.net">openid-general-bounces@lists.openid.net</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>[mailto:openid-general-bounces@lists.openid.net]<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Peter Davis<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Monday, November 09,
2009 5:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>John Panzer<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="mailto:openid-general@lists.openid.net">openid-general@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [OpenID]
host-meta and "acct:"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Nov 6, 2009, at 12:42 PM, John Panzer wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;
font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>We have one compelling use case already
where the existing <Subject> doesn't work: host-meta is "about"
a host, and there is no URI scheme to represent Hosts (see IIW notes at <a
href="https://docs.google.com/a/johnpanzer.com/Doc?docid=0AZojn6fzr_tFZGRqNjhzcXZfOWY1cXA3emY5&hl=en">https://docs.google.com/a/johnpanzer.com/Doc?docid=0AZojn6fzr_tFZGRqNjhzcXZfOWY1cXA3emY5&hl=en</a></span></span><span
class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span
class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>for
alternatives considered). The simplest thing that anyone can come up with for
this use case that doesn't run into tripwires or pitfalls is a separate
element, <hm:Host>, that contains a hostname.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>One possible alternative it to use the dns URI scheme
(RFC4501), which, i think, for the purposes need here, would likely take the
form:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span>
dns:www.example.org</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>you can, of course, use other aspects which might be
interesting for use cases with host-meta such as forming dns queries in the URI
to a dns authority of a zone returning RR types, but i do not know use cases
for that.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>=peterd<o:p></o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Peter Davis: Neustar, Inc.<br>
Director & Distinguished Member of the Technical Staff<br>
45980 Center Oak Plaza Sterling, VA 20166<br>
[T] +1 571 434 5516 [E] <a href="mailto:peter.davis@neustar.biz">peter.davis@neustar.biz</a> [W]<br>
<a href="http://www.neustar.biz/">http://www.neustar.biz/</a> <br>
[X] <a href="xri://@neustar*pdavis">xri://@neustar*pdavis</a> [X] <a
href="xri://=peterd">xri://=peterd</a><br>
The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for <br>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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