<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">John,<div><br></div><div>I am having a hard time with your argument that http: URI are not sufficient for naming resources.</div><div><br></div><div>I would recommend you read the TAG findings on XRI and XRDS. </div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: 'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-size: 13px; "><a href="http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/URNsAndRegistries-50" style="text-decoration: none; outline-style: none; outline-width: initial; outline-color: initial; color: rgb(171, 4, 4); ">http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/URNsAndRegistries-50</a></span></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">I will for the sake of argument agree with Roy Fielding that http: URI can be used as names for any and all resources. That is distinct from them being used as locators for all resources.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">I fail to see a compelling argument for allowing strings in XRD subjects and creating a registry of subject types. (been there it didn't go well)</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">Please don't take us down that road again.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">A XRD Subject, is a NAME it is not a Locator. Constraining Subject to a absolute anyURI is not unreasonable in my opinion. Subject can name information and non information resources.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">Subject is not always required because it could be specified in some other way by the protocol using the XRD. Profiles of XRD are free to make it required.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">If a XRD is retrieved via HTTP the protocol retrieving it may choose to infer the subject (Name) is the Locator (URL).</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">This is an XML doc if someone outside of the XRI-TC thinks they need extension elements to describe the Scope of the XRD that is up to them. They define a namespace and have at it.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">Would it make you happy if host-meta had a subject ie:</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><Subject>http:/google.com/#host-metta</Subject></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">as well as the <hm:Host> elements to describe scope for the templates.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">Even if <Subject is not used for anything in the host-meta spec?</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">Given the history you will not convince the XRI-TC to define Subject to be something other than a URI. That we didn't restrict it to http: URI will probably get us into hot water in some places.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">Regards</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#333333" face="'trebuchet ms', helvetica, hirakakupro-w3, osaka, 'ms pgothic', sans-serif" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 13px;">John Bradley</span></font></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On 2009-11-09, at 8:35 PM, Eran Hammer-Lahav wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><br><br><blockquote type="cite">-----Original Message-----<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: John Kemp [mailto:john@jkemp.net]<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 2:14 PM<br></blockquote><br><blockquote type="cite">I believe that an XRD always has a subject. So far, I have seen no<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">argument to the contrary, and the use-cases discussed all seem to have<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">a subject, even when it is called host.<br></blockquote><br>We agree on that. The question is only whether it is useful to define an element generic enough to support the wide range of potential subjects and still enable interoperability.<br><br><blockquote type="cite">I do see a pragmatic issue about how the subject of an XRD is<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">represented in the XRD document itself.<br></blockquote><br>What I am trying to convey is that from my perspective, the use case supported by the current <Subject> design is by far more likely than any other use case, and is the primary driver in developing XRD. I am reluctant to design an element without better requirements or use cases.<br><br><blockquote type="cite">I agree that this issue is tough to solve, but I think providing<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">common subject-related semantics at the XRD level with a measure of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">extensibility in the right direction is simply good design.<br></blockquote><br>I think that's what we have done. We just don't agree on how this extensibility should be provided.<br><br><blockquote type="cite">I don't have any particular investment in XRD at all, so you are<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">certainly free to evaluate (hopefully without further unwarranted<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">ridicule) my arguments and decide not to pursue any changes.<br></blockquote><br>If anything I wrote came off as ridiculing your views please accept my apology. I have meant no disrespect. My request for use cases wasn't made as criticism, but an actual request for use cases.<br><br><blockquote type="cite">- johnk<br></blockquote><br>_______________________________________________<br>general mailing list<br><a href="mailto:general@lists.openid.net">general@lists.openid.net</a><br>http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>