<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m guessing culturally, that there are a number of things
that need to get dropped.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The notion of “use-case driven” WG needs to go. I
doubt we want to introduce a distinction between those outputs that are
engineered using use-case methods vs those that are not. Use of one or other method
is incidental, and neither supports or limits the technical work. The WG
members should pick one or more once engaged. There is nothing in a “charter”
that has to decide this issue upfront. (otherwise, it smacks of religion, that
introduces politics, that induces worry.. that causes delay…).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The notion of that the particular topic (higher assurance protocols
for trust network) demands certain (Security) engineering techniques (e.g. crypto
and signatures) should also go. The WG might want to decide to adopt an
existing apparatus, tune commodity infrastructure (e.g. PKI), posit 2 levels of
OPs (just like in IS-IS or OSPF enterprise backbones),…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>One should be clear that no additional “profiling” will
be required for interworking. I’m not sure this culture want to adopt the
market fragmentation attitudes present in the SAML adoption space for example. We
have to remember this is the web, focused on consumers (not B2B). B2B is
secondary, and must be an “overlay” on the consumer infrastructure–
much like military folks overlay additional trust on _<i>Commodity</i>_ SSL
when needed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It’s an important step for Openid to frontally address
trust networking (as Nate has headed for a year now). But, the charter needs to
generic and open minded, not a rubber stamp of whatever works at JAL today. At the
same time, it needs a practical orientation, so the debate doesn’t just become
a tech vendor-fest - each wanting their own stuff to get adopted to help their
mindshare marketing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Nat Sakimura
[mailto:sakimura@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Recordon<br>
<b>Cc:</b> general@openid.net; Peter Williams<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OpenID] CX proposal status<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Right. And the response to them were: <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 4:36 AM, David Recordon <<a
href="mailto:david@sixapart.com">david@sixapart.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I think that's a fair assessment,
though missing the piece that the proposal hasn't been making it clear enough
that CX must build on top of existing OpenID specifications <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>the revised proposal (a version before the current one on
the wiki) clearly stated it <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>and that the working group
should not be allowed to produce an indeterminate number of specifications.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>the word "series of" was used to make room for the
possibility of modularization instead of a monolithic one, and it is the scope
that limits the work of the WG and not the number of specs. In the early stage
of use case driven WG, it is often difficult to determine how it is going to be
modularized at the outset. Having said that, I have removed the words
"series of" as well. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>=nat<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
I'm looking forward to the call.<br>
<br>
--David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
----- "Nat Sakimura" <<a href="mailto:sakimura@gmail.com"
target="_blank">sakimura@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <br>
> Some members of spec council suggested rejection on the basis of (1) the
scope being too wide (2) not getting enough support from the community, i.e.,
probalby on 4.2(c). Some proposers replied back to those points in
specs-council ML that (1) being usecase driven, it may look that scope is wide
but it really is not, (2) it has support from EU, Japan, and US members and
suggested a call to close on this. The call is being planned right now. <br>
> <br>
> Would that be a fair summary? <br>
> <br>
> =nat<br>
> <br>
> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 8:24
AM, Peter Williams <<a href="mailto:pwilliams@rapattoni.com" target="_blank">pwilliams@rapattoni.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Can anyone summarize for folks
here (in ~100 words) the status of the specs council discussion on the CX
proposal?</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> general mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:general@openid.net" target="_blank">general@openid.net</a><br>
> <a href="http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general" target="_blank">http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general</a><br>
> <br>
> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br>
> <br clear=all>
<br>
> -- <br>
> Nat Sakimura (=nat)<br>
> <a href="http://www.sakimura.org/en/" target="_blank">http://www.sakimura.org/en/</a><br>
> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>>
_______________________________________________ general mailing list <a
href="mailto:general@openid.net" target="_blank">general@openid.net</a> <a
href="http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general" target="_blank">http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Nat Sakimura (=nat)<br>
<a href="http://www.sakimura.org/en/">http://www.sakimura.org/en/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>