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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Peter,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think that after the edits the proposers
made on their telecon today (that unfortunately none of the Specs Council
members could attend, though there wasn’t much notice), the OpenID CX
(Contract Exhange) charter has now been scoped tight enough – into a
single spec – and defined clearly enough that it should address any
concerns raised by the Spec Council. Whether the final spec is approved by the
community as an OpenID specification is of course up to the community, but the
job of the Specs Council – to make sure the work meets the basic
requirements of being something relevant to the OpenID community, should now
IMHO be a no-brainer.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The proposers are having a telecon with
the Specs Council next Thursday that should conclude the review process. I
think this shows that we are slowly working the kinks out of the OpenID WG
process and that we should start getting progressively faster and smoother and –
please God – lighter weight as we move forward in 2009.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>=Drummond <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0pt 0pt 0pt 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
general-bounces@openid.net [mailto:general-bounces@openid.net] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Peter Williams<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January 15, 2009
3:32 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Nat Sakimura<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> general@openid.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [OpenID] CX proposal
status</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I suspect this class
of issue is quite important to the specs council members. But…I’m
not speaking authoritatively! The power in such decision making is always
function of who pays the bills!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Of course, there is
not a single thing that openid does that other protocols don’t already
accomplish (typically using xml ,dsig and https). But, like any
standards-based product, what matters is not the pure function but the unique
design concept that builds an online community operating a “certain
way”. UCI-openid and Shib-SAML could not be more different in operational
concepts, despite having the same functional output.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>I suspect spec
council people will want the trust networking topic addressed according to
“the openid philosophy”. It has to smell like web2.0 in its
culture, not like the kind of material that OASIS (or IEEE) would typically
generate. It also has to avoid smelling like a W3C standard, which tends to be
too far out (like the half billion FOAF files that exist… but no one
uses). Though unstated, any design may have to avoid “that”
which induced openid in the first place (being merely the nth websso protocol
to come out of the gate in recent years).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>The way the
high-level criteria are structured suggests that it’s a defensive posture
and fundamentally a political process - which will require canvassing the
council members rather than rationalizing the content. Its rule system design
pretty obviously allows the “founders” to hold further developments
true to the founding spirit as they see it – and they get to do that
outside of membership control, with no formal accountability ; needing only to
claim they are upholding the “vision”.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0pt 0pt 0pt 4.0pt'>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Nat Sakimura
[mailto:sakimura@gmail.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January 15, 2009
3:03 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Peter Williams<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> David Recordon;
general@openid.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [OpenID] CX proposal
status<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Well, to be clear, I am
not proposing to rubber stamp on JAL implementation. <br>
<br>
That's fairly different than what we would come up. <br>
<br>
For example, JAL implementation actually uses XML contract format with XML Sig.
<br>
I actually prefer that, but I was guessing that this community would want
something not XML nor XML Sig. Of course, if the community wants XML+XMLSig, I
am more than happy. <br>
<br>
It is just the use case from JAL implementation that I am bringing in. <br>
<br>
=nat<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 2:29 AM, Peter Williams <<a
href="mailto:pwilliams@rapattoni.com">pwilliams@rapattoni.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I'm guessing culturally, that there are a number of
things that need to get dropped.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The notion of "use-case driven" WG needs to go.
I doubt we want to introduce a distinction between those outputs that are
engineered using use-case methods vs those that are not. Use of one or other
method is incidental, and neither supports or limits the technical work. The WG
members should pick one or more once engaged. There is nothing in a
"charter" that has to decide this issue upfront. (otherwise, it
smacks of religion, that introduces politics, that induces worry.. that
causes delay…).</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The notion of that the particular topic (higher assurance
protocols for trust network) demands certain (Security) engineering techniques
(e.g. crypto and signatures) should also go. The WG might want to decide to
adopt an existing apparatus, tune commodity infrastructure (e.g. PKI), posit 2
levels of OPs (just like in IS-IS or OSPF enterprise backbones),…</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>One should be clear that no additional
"profiling" will be required for interworking. I'm not sure this
culture want to adopt the market fragmentation attitudes present in the SAML
adoption space for example. We have to remember this is the web, focused
on consumers (not B2B). B2B is secondary, and must be an "overlay"
on the consumer infrastructure– much like military folks
overlay additional trust on _<i><span style='font-style:italic'>Commodity</span></i>_
SSL when needed.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>It's an important step for Openid to frontally address
trust networking (as Nate has headed for a year now). But, the charter needs to
generic and open minded, not a rubber stamp of whatever works at JAL today. At
the same time, it needs a practical orientation, so the debate doesn't just
become a tech vendor-fest - each wanting their own stuff to get adopted to help
their mindshare marketing.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style='margin-left:10.5pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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