<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>That is a completely wrong approach. ANY need to manually edit
HTML or XRDS is a failure on part of the OpenID (or even blog platform)
provider. Users should use a UI, not code XML/HTML/XRDS to manage their
identity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The people today who want vanity OpenID URIs can all edit XRDS.
In fact, they are more likely to get it right than editing HTML. When the
market for vanity URIs for grandmas is ready, so will the sleek UI to enable
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>EHL<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Andrew Arnott
[mailto:andrewarnott@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Eran Hammer-Lahav<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Chris Messina; general@openid.net List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OpenID] HTML-Based Discovery incompatibilities<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>True. You and I don't need <link> tags with the
OpenID URI and can write XRDS docs. But if you want the average user to
be able to set up a vanity URL, they need those simpler tags. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>My parents and sisters, who know almost nothing about HTML,
still manage to keep blogs on Blogger. They could, with help, add two
LINK tags to their blog to managed their own OpenIDs, but they could not be
expected to author an XRDS doc. And even if they could, where would they
host it? Blogger doesn't allow hosting of arbitrary files like that.
Nor would the Content-Type HTTP response header likely be the correct one
for said XRDS doc.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>--<br>
Andrew Arnott<br>
"I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death
your right to say it." - Voltaire<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Eran Hammer-Lahav <<a
href="mailto:eran@hueniverse.com">eran@hueniverse.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>It is. I am just saying we
don't need so many options (like <link> elements with the OpenID URI).
Simply point everything to just an XRDS file.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>EHL</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'> Andrew Arnott [mailto:<a href="mailto:andrewarnott@gmail.com"
target="_blank">andrewarnott@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Eran Hammer-Lahav<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Chris Messina; <a href="mailto:general@openid.net" target="_blank">general@openid.net</a>
List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OpenID] HTML-Based Discovery incompatibilities</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Eran,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Maybe I misunderstand you, but isn't adding a link to your XRDS file from
HTML in fact one aspect of HTML discovery? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I mean, html discovery can result in an XRDS
doc reference, finding openid.server (et. al) tags, or nothing at all.<br
clear=all>
--<br>
Andrew Arnott<br>
"I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death
your right to say it." - Voltaire<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p>On Thu, Jan 8, 2009 at 8:55 AM, Eran Hammer-Lahav <<a
href="mailto:eran@hueniverse.com" target="_blank">eran@hueniverse.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I would like to see HTML-Based
discovery removed from the spec completely. There is no reason to have it
anymore since you can simply add a link to your XRDS file from HTML and get it
all done there in a consistent way.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>In my upcoming discovery spec I
spell out that resource-consumers must support multiple values in the rel
attribute.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>EHL</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'> <a href="mailto:general-bounces@openid.net" target="_blank">general-bounces@openid.net</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces@openid.net" target="_blank">general-bounces@openid.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Chris Messina<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:general@openid.net" target="_blank">general@openid.net</a>
List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [OpenID] HTML-Based Discovery incompatibilities</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I just read over SS 7.3.3 on HTML-Based Discovery [1], and considering my
experience today trying to re-delegate my OpenID, I've discovered that this
section needs to updated a clarified.<br>
<br>
It turns out that relying parties are not parsing HTML rel values in a standard
way. That is, if there is more than one rel value provided for a link, some RPs
fail, whereas others work fine.<br>
<br>
In other words, this:<br>
<br>
<link rel="<span style='background:#FFFF33'>openid2.provider
openid.server</span>" href="<a href="http://factoryjoe.com/blog/"
target="_blank">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/</a>" /><br>
<link rel="<span style='background:#FFFF33'>openid2.local_id
openid.delegate</span>" href="<a href="http://factoryjoe.com/blog/"
target="_blank">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/</a>" /><br>
<br>
is not the same as this:<br>
<br>
<link rel="<span style='background:#FFFF33'>openid2.provider</span>"
href="<a href="http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?openid_server=1" target="_blank">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?openid_server=1</a>"
/><br>
<link rel="<span style='background:#FFFF33'>openid2.local_id</span>"
href="<a href="http://factoryjoe.com/blog/author/factoryjoe/"
target="_blank">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/author/factoryjoe/</a>" /><br>
<link rel="<span style='background:#FFFF33'>openid.server</span>"
href="<a href="http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?openid_server=1" target="_blank">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/?openid_server=1</a>"
/><br>
<link rel="<span style='background:#FFFF33'>openid.delegate</span>"
href="<a href="http://factoryjoe.com/blog/author/factoryjoe/"
target="_blank">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/author/factoryjoe/</a>" /><br>
<br>
It's my understanding that the rel attribute should be able to contain several
values.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p>But I can tell you that IntenseDebate, for example, failed when delegation
was setup using the former code. It only worked when I broke out the two links
into four.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p>I'm not sure if this is an issue with the libraries or what, but I'd like to
know if other people have experienced this problem, and if we can improve the
language in the spec to make sure that people understand that they need to look
for the presence of an element in a rel value -- not that the *entire* value is
one element.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Chris<br>
<br>
[1] <a
href="http://openid.net/specs/openid-authentication-2_0.html#html_disco"
target="_blank">http://openid.net/specs/openid-authentication-2_0.html#html_disco</a><br>
<br>
-- <br>
Chris Messina<br>
Citizen-Participant &<br>
Open Web Advocate-at-Large<br>
<br>
<a href="http://factoryjoe.com" target="_blank">factoryjoe.com</a> # <a
href="http://diso-project.org" target="_blank">diso-project.org</a><br>
<a href="http://citizenagency.com" target="_blank">citizenagency.com</a> # <a
href="http://vidoop.com" target="_blank">vidoop.com</a><br>
This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ]
private<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
general mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:general@openid.net" target="_blank">general@openid.net</a><br>
<a href="http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general" target="_blank">http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>