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<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap: break-word;
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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN>I could not get to the part of payment (for
registration) without passing by the (unacceptable) agreement terms.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN>Out of interest, is there a debit/credit-card
payment option? And is the Foundation PCI compliant (and has it attested to
compliance)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN>There are of course proper means to avoid needing
to audit/validate the storage/transmittal/processing systems as being PCI
compliant – including using explicit framing solutions by payment
gateways. Is this what the foundation does? Who is the vendor of the payment
gateway, and does the Foundation have its own merchant id?? Who is the
Acquiring bank (if any), and how was it selected?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
general-bounces@openid.net [mailto:general-bounces@openid.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David
Recordon<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, December 06, 2008 9:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Brian Kissel<br>
<b>Cc:</b> general@openid.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [OpenID] Changes to the OpenID Foundation member page login<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hey Brian,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for more of the backstory here. A few
questions:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>1) How was the decision made to use RPX versus investing the
energy to update the Rails plugin? My understanding is that Mike Jones
was also unaware of the decision to use RPX. I believe that personally I
would have also chosen to use RPX so that it would be working a week sooner.
That said, if the OpenID Foundation can't make OpenID 2.0 fully work in
Rails it seems prudent for the Foundation to help the community fix this
problem. I would be happy to see the Foundation provide monetary support
in updating the Rails plugin to be in the state that it should for the entire
community after the election problem was fixed.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>2) Did JanRain ask the Foundation to purchase an
SSL certificate (I generally buy them for around $50/year)? Just as
cops aren't allowed to accept free coffee and doughnuts from convenience stores
(since it makes the cops prefer that store to others in their patrol zones) is
there not a concern that in providing a free service to the Foundation that the
Foundation might prefer JanRain to other vendors? If the Foundation truly
believes that RPX is the best solution here, taking into account the cost, then
it feels like we should be paying for it in one way or another.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>3) Does Peat, one of the contractors working for Refresh
Media who has been building the membership/election tool, also have some form
of employment with JanRain? If so, why did you never disclose this and
was this started before or after Refresh Media began work on the
membership/election tool?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>--David<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Dec 6, 2008, at 2:12 PM, Brian Kissel wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hello All,</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks to everyone for the feedback on the changes on OpenID
login on the OpenID.net website.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>First, our apologies with the trust root problem that originally
pointed to an RPX affiliated trust root. That problem has been
fixed. Here’s the background for anyone who has questions.</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Refresh Media is the contractor that the OIDF hired to design
and implement the polling and elections platforms. Several weeks ago
after an OIDF meeting we decided we wanted to make sure that the polling and
elections platform were going to be operational in time for an end of the year
election. At the time Bill Washburn was incapacitated due to some medical
problems, so I volunteered to work with Mike Jones and Refresh Media to make
sure the system was operational in time for the elections. </span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>After the nominations had started, Refresh Media was having
problems getting OpenID to work for login on the OIDF website:</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>“Our
experience with the "official" Rails plugins for OpenID
authentication has been pretty bad over the last two months.
Specifically, it's been a struggle to get it up to speed with the OpenID
2.0 spec, most significantly adding support for i-names and directed identity.
There would have been probably another week of development required to
overhaul the plugin, but there wasn't enough time to do a proper job for the
board elections. JanRain offered RPX as an alternative to get us up and
running more quickly. We sent Bill Washburn an e-mail in to check to make
sure this was a reasonable approach, but after not hearing back from him made
the switch when the situation became urgent.”</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The first implementation of RPX was our free RPX Basic version,
which uses the RPX-affiliated trust root since using our Plus or Pro offerings
would have required buying a separate SSL cert. After some OIDF members
expressed concern with the RPX-affiliated trust root, JanRain paid at its own
cost to get a new cert and upgraded the implementation to the Plus, again at no
fee to the OIDF.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>So the system should be working well now, if not please let us
know.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>With respect to whether it’s appropriate to be using RPX
on the OIDF website or not, it appears that there has been a diversity of
opinion. Some of the membership has applauded the improvements in ease of
use and reliability, some have concerns about using any vendor products on the
official OIDF site. I will point out that there is no mention
of JanRain nor RPX on the implementation on the OIDF login
implementation. If, after having now fixed the trust root problem, there
is still a desire to remove RPX we can certainly do that but Refresh Media will
still have to fix the initial problems that it was addressing.</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If a diversity of opinion remains, we could use our newly
implemented polling survey tool to see what the majority of the members would
like to see happen.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Cheers,</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'><br>
Brian</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'>==============</span></b><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Brian Kissel</span></b><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Cell: 503.866.4424</span></b><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Fax: 503.296.5502</span></b><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><a
href="mailto:general-bounces@openid.net">general-bounces@openid.net</a> [<a
href="mailto:general-bounces@openid.net">mailto:general-bounces@openid.net</a>]<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>David Recordon<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Friday, December 05,
2008 11:31 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Chris Messina<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="mailto:general@openid.net">general@openid.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [OpenID]
Changes to the OpenID Foundation member page login</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Agreed with Chris here. I
don't inherently have a problem with using RPX since it does provide
value, but the trust root needs to be fixed and far more transparency added by
the Foundation when choosing to use a vendor's product.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I'm also concerned about some of
the optics when it comes to JanRain. As far as I can tell JanRain has
started a consulting engagement when one of the developers the OpenID
Foundation retained to build the membership and elections tool. The
elections tool now has JanRain's solution in it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Given Brian Kissel's growing
involvement in the Foundation the past few months I would have expected him to
disclose this as the CEO of JanRain especially as he's currently running for a
*community* board seat in the election.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>As to the developer himself, I
have no idea if he has a NDA with JanRain that might have prevented this, if he
did disclose it to the committee of the Foundation that engaged him,
or what. I'm much less concerned about his role in all of this as I'm
sure in both engagements he's just doing what he's being paid to do.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>--David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>On Dec 5, 2008, at 11:08 AM, Chris
Messina wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 11:00 AM,
Steven Livingstone-Perez <<a href="mailto:weblivz@hotmail.com">weblivz@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I don't really have much of a say
on this (other than being a new member)<br>
and you may 100% disagree with me, but IMHO there *is* an argument that in<br>
using best of breed products we can demonstrate the power of OpenID to users<br>
... compared with the cost/effort to implement something that already does a<br>
really good job.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>No argument there. Making OpenID
seem awesome (or live up to its promised awesomeness) isn't really something
that I'm questioning.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>This kind of experience can be
done without the use of a vendor product, though, but requires quite a bit more
work and time.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I do understand the endorsement
aspect, but on the other hand the UX is the<br>
biggest issue OpenID seems to have at the moment and it seems to me that<br>
using such products (so long as they are donated as such and not specific<br>
long term to any one company) can only be a positive thing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br clear=all>
Therein lies the rub. I'm not arguing against using RPX, but for concealing it
in the trust root (since currently people end up trusting *.<a
href="http://rpxnow.com">rpxnow.com</a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>rather
than<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://openid.net">openid.net</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>— thereby creating a long term
situation that's hard to switch from (without users having to *reassociate*))
and for getting some transparency into how the decision to use RPX was made.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I agree with Eran that the
experience is better -- but let's not set a poor precedent in the interest of
expediency.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br>
--<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
Chris Messina<br>
Citizen-Participant &<br>
Open Technology Advocate-at-Large<br>
<a href="http://factoryjoe.com">factoryjoe.com</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>#<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="http://diso-project.org">diso-project.org</a><br>
<a href="http://citizenagency.com">citizenagency.com</a><span
class=apple-converted-space> </span>#<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="http://vidoop.com">vidoop.com</a><br>
This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ]
private<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
general mailing list<br>
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<a href="http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general">http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
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database 3667 (20081205) __________<br>
<br>
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<br>
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<br>
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3668 (20081206) __________<br>
<br>
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
general mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:general@openid.net">general@openid.net</a><br>
<a href="http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general">http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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