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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>For one, I could not ultimately care less what __large__ OPs or
do – tho the swing to “idp-centric” federations exercising their
“control impulses” during this phase of “governance-driven growth”
is quite predictable (as it was during the hierarchical PKI CA uptake, before
self-signed certs came back nicely – even in foreground systems - as in a
million enterprise routers, a hundred million home routers, countless millions
of Microsoft domain controllers,…) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>OpenID is not about large TTP companies, doing big company
things – to own consumer user information in trust. If it becomes that, id
agree with Paul (if he actually asserted this) that it is nothing other than a
(relatively poorly) engineered “protocol equivalent” to SAML , addressing
some of the same use cases as does SAML.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> If it stays its design course, it’s part of the web2.5
UI-centric world, as in the UI for linkbacks; as in its URLness integrates with
the other URL-centric “components” of the modern web GUI; as in its
portability allows the user freedom to move lifestyle data around without any penalty
or hinderance; as in its persistent-search properties integrate nicely with RDF
ontologies and their next generation mashup UIs…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;
padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m guilty of equating openid with SAML. Im beginning to
see Ive been wrong.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Its more useful to equate OpenID Auth with SSL Record Layer. And
that’s a huge shift in paradigms. Folks building SSL record-layer plugins
was always a pipe dream (which happened only in mega- large companies). OpenID
allows __anyone__ to **easily** do this kind of crypto-based enhancement/invention,
even after mass deployment and adoption. We just never had that…in the world
of web1.0 SSL, once NSA/DoC killed off Microsoft’s winsock provider implementation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> general-bounces@openid.net
[mailto:general-bounces@openid.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Madsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 18, 2008 7:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Chris Messina<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Brynn Evans; Luke Sontag; OpenID user experience; Scott Kveton; OpenID
List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [SPAM]Re: [OpenID] [QUAR] Re: Independent study on OpenID
awareness using Mechanical Turk<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi Chris, to clarify. I wasn't suggesting that OpenID should
be 'invisible', just :<br>
<br>
1) pointing out that SAML is (except in some rare cases)<br>
2) large OPs appears to be heading in that direction<br>
3) posing the question as to whether a user that is 'aware' of OpenID is better
off than another oblivious to the fact (I don't know the answer)<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Chris Messina wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>There have been subsequent responses that I thought were
interesting and worth sharing: <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><a
href="http://connectid.blogspot.com/2008/11/naval-gazing_17.html">http://connectid.blogspot.com/2008/11/naval-gazing_17.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Paul suggests that the study amounts to "navel
gazing" and that OpenID should be a background technology, like SAML, and
users shouldn't have to become aware of it -- thus, this survey is asking the
wrong question (i.e. who cares whether people identity or know what OpenID
is?).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I talked about branding OpenID in one of my subsequent
posts, so I won't rehash my thoughts on that here.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><a
href="http://idlogger.wordpress.com/2008/11/17/statistical-entrails-reading/"
target="_blank">http://idlogger.wordpress.com/2008/11/17/statistical-entrails-reading/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Jeff Bohren follows up and suggests that the larger OpenID
providers (here's lookin' at you, Yahoo and AOL) who have been up for awhile
should be sharing statistics on use of their endpoints, *EVEN* if (as I
suspect), adoption and usage are infinitesimally small, so that we
can gauge uptake over time.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>It would seem to me that this is work that the OIDF should
be facilitating, and something that Brian Kissel, vis-a-vis the marketing team,
should be working on.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>What needs to happen to get the large (or even smaller) OPs
to start providing data about use of accounts with OpenID? Maybe Brian Ellin
could throw something up on AppEngine to aggregate these numbers?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Chris<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:54 PM, Nat Sakimura <<a
href="mailto:sakimura@gmail.com" target="_blank">sakimura@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>+100 !<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 11:52 AM, Brian Kissel <<a
href="mailto:bkissel@janrain.com" target="_blank">bkissel@janrain.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Congrats Chris, well done!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:navy'>Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:navy'><br>
Brian</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:navy'>==============</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:navy'>Brian Kissel</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:navy'>Cell: 503.866.4424</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:navy'>Fax: 503.296.5502</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'> <a href="mailto:user-experience-bounces@openid.net" target="_blank">user-experience-bounces@openid.net</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:user-experience-bounces@openid.net" target="_blank">user-experience-bounces@openid.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Chris Messina<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 14, 2008 2:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> OpenID List; diso-project; OpenID user experience<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Brynn Evans; Luke Sontag; Scott Kveton<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [QUAR] Re: Independent study on OpenID awareness using
Mechanical Turk<br>
<b>Importance:</b> Low</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>ZDNet picked up the study:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a href="http://blogs.zdnet.com/community/?p=131" target="_blank">http://blogs.zdnet.com/community/?p=131</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Chris<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p>On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Chris Messina <<a
href="mailto:chris.messina@gmail.com" target="_blank">chris.messina@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p>Wanted to share the results of a study that Brynn Evans and I completed at
the end of October:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p><a href="http://tr.im/mturk_openid" target="_blank">http://tr.im/mturk_openid</a><br
clear=all>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p>It cost me about $6 to collect responses from 301 people on Mechanical Turk.
I felt that it was important to look into a wider sample size than Yahoo's
study which was composed of 9 female Yahoo members in their thirties. In
particular, many people drew conclusions from that small sample size about OpenID's
awareness that I felt were unfounded and decided to seek out an independent
analysis of a larger data set.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p>The original source data is available here:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><a href="http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pSGbbhtwI4kOhPusNx8Kycg"
target="_blank">http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pSGbbhtwI4kOhPusNx8Kycg</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Thoughts welcomed,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p>Chris<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><br>
-- <br>
Chris Messina<br>
Citizen-Participant &<br>
Open Technology Advocate-at-Large<br>
<a href="http://factoryjoe.com" target="_blank">factoryjoe.com</a> # <a
href="http://diso-project.org" target="_blank">diso-project.org</a><br>
<a href="http://citizenagency.com" target="_blank">citizenagency.com</a> # <a
href="http://vidoop.com" target="_blank">vidoop.com</a><br>
This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ]
private<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Chris Messina<br>
Citizen-Participant &<br>
Open Technology Advocate-at-Large<br>
<a href="http://factoryjoe.com" target="_blank">factoryjoe.com</a> # <a
href="http://diso-project.org" target="_blank">diso-project.org</a><br>
<a href="http://citizenagency.com" target="_blank">citizenagency.com</a> # <a
href="http://vidoop.com" target="_blank">vidoop.com</a><br>
This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ]
private<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3612 (20081113) __________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><a href="http://www.eset.com" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 3614 (20081114) __________<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><a href="http://www.eset.com" target="_blank">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
user-experience mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:user-experience@openid.net" target="_blank">user-experience@openid.net</a><br>
<a href="http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/user-experience" target="_blank">http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/user-experience</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:#888888'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Nat Sakimura (=nat)<br>
<a href="http://www.sakimura.org/en/" target="_blank">http://www.sakimura.org/en/</a><br>
</span><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
general mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:general@openid.net" target="_blank">general@openid.net</a><br>
<a href="http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general" target="_blank">http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Chris Messina<br>
Citizen-Participant &<br>
Open Technology Advocate-at-Large<br>
<a href="http://factoryjoe.com" target="_blank">factoryjoe.com</a> # <a
href="http://diso-project.org" target="_blank">diso-project.org</a><br>
<a href="http://citizenagency.com" target="_blank">citizenagency.com</a> # <a
href="http://vidoop.com" target="_blank">vidoop.com</a><br>
This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ]
private<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>general mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="mailto:general@openid.net">general@openid.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general">http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre
style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>No virus found in this incoming message.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Checked by AVG. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.6/1797 - Release Date: 18/11/2008 11:23 AM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>-- <br>
<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/%7Er/blogspot/gMwy/%7E6/1"><span
style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=400 height=82 id="_x0000_i1027"
src="cid:image001.gif@01C94952.656A6FF0" alt=ConnectID></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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