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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>From the tone, I don’t this
your emails come across as displaying any of the negative feature you describe.
Don’t always take email discussion so personally! Its friendly banter.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>OpenID is only just emerging as a
forum with an explicit governance culture. And it will take time to evolve
its own style. One helps form it by doing exactly what you do: contribute in
public, on the record. Even folks like me, from the bottom half of the class, have
some technical say, in general forums. Obviously, that means my opinion should have
little weight.. buts that’s fine! Ill slowly improve to the point in
OpenID tech where I can *<b>usefully</b>* join a WG. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>We could have a line-based word-smithing
culture in last call (arguing about precise use of engineering language, often),
or an issue culture (designed to gauge the consensus). It’s upto the
membership. As far as I can tell, this is really the first run through the full
process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>As a last call process, however,
I don’t think one should argue that ANY specific text should change
(that was the WG’s work, now complete to last call status). It’s
more a case of standing back and seeing if, as written, the issues are formulated
“right” for the mission we have, when one reads the text. One is making
the cases for the voters to consider. In general, it’s the opportunity to
apply a general set of smell tests given the mission and the WG charter, vs rehash
of the WG’s deliberations over wording.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>But, I don’t even have a membership
in OpenID (or therefore a vote). For me, something smells right about a forum focused
on a UCI mission when, despite that, the process has built in a voice for the likes
of me, the general public.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Paul Madsen
[mailto:paulmadsen@rogers.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 23, 2008 7:36 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Peter Williams<br>
<b>Cc:</b> general@openid.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [SPAM]Re: [SPAM]Re: [OpenID] PAPE Specification Review Period
Commencing<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Peter, to be honest I myself was unaware of all the subtle
undertones of my seemingly simple request for line numbers but, now that you
have hilited them for me, I'm actually a little disappointed in myself to be
part of such political maneuvers.<br>
<br>
paul<br>
<br>
p.s. In my innocence, I had thought that line numbers would actually enable
open discussion on the lists. Again, I apologize for my naivete.<br>
<br>
Peter Williams wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I don’t believe in lines
for email-based standards processes; on this I like the way IETF does it.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>There is a wider issue, beyond simple
citation by line numbers, in MY view. Their lack forces people to argue the
issues (ad nauseam) in their own words. This has a nice side effect of teaching
the passive listeners, too. In general, all this promotes transparency, is
inclusive, and puts barriers into the adoption of “expert culture”.
It does have a downside: email overload.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Standardization can quickly
become backroom deals, which favors folks with access, who have funds for
travel and conferences, or who belong to particular other Boards, trading
groups or investment funds. In some forums, that is the prevailing culture (and
I don’t belong, there ). In other forums, with grassroots-based missions
(like UCI), the process often entails design that retains the grassroots focus.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>When the passion of the argument
is evident, and when viewing the language use and phrasing of the arguer over
time, you can typically see from which constituency they hail. At that point,
you can look on at the consensus of constituencies and gauge the social value
of the standardization of the market.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a
href="mailto:general-bounces@openid.net">general-bounces@openid.net</a> [<a
href="mailto:general-bounces@openid.net">mailto:general-bounces@openid.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Madsen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, October 23, 2008 6:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mike Jones<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:specs@openid.net">specs@openid.net</a>; <a
href="mailto:general@openid.net">general@openid.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [SPAM]Re: [OpenID] PAPE Specification Review Period Commencing</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi Mike, if there were an official line numbered version, it
would enable people providing comments against specific lines<br>
<br>
Or is there another preferred mechanism for feedback?<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Mike Jones wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>The OpenID Provider Authentication Policy Extension (PAPE)
Working Group recommends approval of PAPE Draft 7 as an OpenID
Specification. The draft is available at these locations:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a
href="http://openid.net/specs/openid-provider-authentication-policy-extension-1_0-07.html">http://openid.net/specs/openid-provider-authentication-policy-extension-1_0-07.html</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a
href="http://openid.net/specs/openid-provider-authentication-policy-extension-1_0-07.txt">http://openid.net/specs/openid-provider-authentication-policy-extension-1_0-07.txt</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>This note starts the 60 day public review period for the
specification draft in accordance with the OpenID Foundation IPR policies and
procedures. This review period will end on Sunday, December 21st.
Unless issues are identified during the review that the working group believes
must be addressed by revising the draft, this review period will be followed by
a seven day voting period during which OpenID Foundation members will vote on
whether to approve this draft as an OpenID Specification.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>As background, the proposal to create the working group,
which the membership approved, is available at <a
href="http://openid.net/pipermail/specs/2008-May/002323.html">http://openid.net/pipermail/specs/2008-May/002323.html</a>.
The specifications council report on the creation of the working group is
available at <a href="http://openid.net/pipermail/specs/2008-May/002326.html">http://openid.net/pipermail/specs/2008-May/002326.html</a>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>
-- Mike<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='text-align:center'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre
style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</pre><pre style='text-align:center'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre
style='text-align:center'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='text-align:center'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>specs mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="mailto:specs@openid.net">specs@openid.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/specs">http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/specs</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='text-align:center'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</pre><pre style='text-align:center'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre
style='text-align:center'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='text-align:center'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>No virus found in this incoming message.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Checked by AVG. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1739 - Release Date: 22/10/2008 7:23 AM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>--
<br>
<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/%7Er/blogspot/gMwy/%7E6/1"><span
style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=400 height=82 id="_x0000_i1027"
src="cid:image001.gif@01C934E6.BE420550" alt=ConnectID></span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>No virus found in this incoming message.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Checked by AVG. <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.8.2/1741 - Release Date: 23/10/2008 7:54 AM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'>--
<br>
<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/%7Er/blogspot/gMwy/%7E6/1"><span
style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=400 height=82 id="_x0000_i1029"
src="cid:image002.gif@01C934E6.BE420550" alt=ConnectID></span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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