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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Arrrgggghhh! I’m cc’ing Bill Washburn,
Scott Kveton, and David Recordon, as I’m certain one of the three of them know.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>=Drummond <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Chris Messina
[mailto:chris.messina@gmail.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 15, 2008
9:32 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Drummond Reed<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Johannes Ernst; OpenID List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: Starting new OpenID
Workgroups (was RE:Combining Google & Yahoo user experience research)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I'll volunteer to transfer this document to the OpenID wiki, but it's
not accepting my OpenID, so I'm stymied and can't proceed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Who's in charge of maintaining the wiki?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Drummond Reed <<a
href="mailto:drummond.reed@cordance.net">drummond.reed@cordance.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div link=blue vlink=blue>
<div>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Chris, you bring up a very good point and one which the OIDF
needs to take action on – it's too hard to find this info right now. The
workgroup chartering process is described a set of docs listed at the bottom
of:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>
<a href="http://openid.net/foundation/intellectual-property/" target="_blank">http://openid.net/foundation/intellectual-property/</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>The key doc in PDF form is:</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>
<a
href="http://openid.net/ipr/OpenID_Process_Document_(Final_Clean_20071221).pdf"
target="_blank">http://openid.net/ipr/OpenID_Process_Document_(Final_Clean_20071221).pdf</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>IMHO what needs to happen is that a simple web page
description of this process needs to be written up and posted to <a
href="http://openid.net" target="_blank">openid.net</a> so that it's much more
accessible. If I weren't so swamped I'd volunteer to do this myself, but due to
deadlines I'm under I won't be able to get to it for several weeks.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>In any case, all the info you need is that doc. Basically a
group of community members proposes a charter for the WG, submits it to the
Specifications Council for approval, then the WG is chartered, folks join (and
sign the IPR agreement), it does the work to produce the spec, then the
community votes on it.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>=Drummond </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a
href="mailto:general-bounces@openid.net" target="_blank">general-bounces@openid.net</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces@openid.net" target="_blank">general-bounces@openid.net</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Chris Messina<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 15, 2008
1:00 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Johannes Ernst<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> OpenID List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [OpenID] Combining
Google & Yahoo user experience research</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Perfect!
Well, I asked Recordon about this over a month ago and I'm still not clear on
what the official policy is! I googled for "OpenID workgroup" and
came up empty; worse, I checked out <a href="http://openid.net" target="_blank">openid.net</a>
and found nothing either.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>How does
one go about creating such a workgroup? What's required? And how do we take the
existing spec through an OpenID Extension process?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Tue,
Oct 14, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Johannes Ernst <jernst+<a href="http://openid.net"
target="_blank">openid.net</a>@<a href="http://netmesh.us" target="_blank">netmesh.us</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='word-wrap:break-word'>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>What
about you charter EAUT as a proper OpenID workgroup, and then we talk? ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>I really
don't understand why it is not if you are serious about going in that direction
...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Oct
14, 2008, at 20:49 , Chris Messina wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Can I
take a poll? With all this talk about email address mapping/translation -- I'm
curious -- how many of you have actually read the EAUT (email address to URL
translation) spec?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><a
href="http://eaut.org/specs/1.0/" target="_blank">http://eaut.org/specs/1.0/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>It seems like much of this conversation (the
productive bits) could be had on the EAUT list [1], in order to move things
forward and get the spec in a form that could be taken into an OpenID
Extension, which could then pave the way for 1) establishing extension creation
protocol and 2) make the spec ready for wider deployment/adoption.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Not that
all this talk of DNS and XRI isn't compelling, but I was hoping that we might
get a solution in place before I turn 40.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>P.S. I
was born in 1981.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>[1] <a
href="http://groups.google.com/group/eaut" target="_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/eaut</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Tue,
Oct 14, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Brandon Ramirez <<a
href="mailto:brandon.s.ramirez@gmail.com" target="_blank">brandon.s.ramirez@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>It's more
than just request -> response. It's also an intriguing model for
information resolution, where the trust is centralized, but then
delegated out.<br>
<br>
Why shouldn't it be used for identity resolution as well? An identity
(even more so from a computer's perspective) is merely a small set of data with
a chain of trust - just like most DNS lookups.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Tue,
Oct 14, 2008 at 10:45 PM, Martin Atkins <<a
href="mailto:mart@degeneration.co.uk" target="_blank">mart@degeneration.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>SitG Admin wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Putting it in DNS doesn't change the user-centricness, it just changes<br>
>> the means of publication.<br>
><br>
> I disagree here; to use military terminology here (as learned from<br>
> analyses of Trusted Computing) for a moment, your DNS server is not a<br>
> Trusted party for your personal information! IT does not have access to<br>
> your personal information; YOU do. If a spammer (or stalker) wants to<br>
> learn where you live (so they have a physical address for snailmail spam<br>
> or home invasion), they cannot simply ask the DNS server where you live,<br>
> because the DNS server does not possess that information - they MUST<br>
> contact you, the user, directly, and in the process of making that<br>
> request they not only make you (the user) aware of it, but provoke the<br>
> distinct possibility that you will simply refuse to tell them!<br>
><br>
> Your reply also suggested, though, that this level of control *can* be<br>
> present in DNS, which intrigues me :)<br>
><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>I was not
suggesting that you should put your physical address or<br>
telephone number in DNS, just that you can publish in DNS information<br>
about how that information might be obtained, much as you publish on<br>
your web site how that information might be obtained.<br>
<br>
I'd also like to point out that HTTP URLs are themselves dependent on<br>
DNS. All you gain by publishing this information over HTTP rather than<br>
DNS is a couple more layers of indirection. I can't control my identity<br>
page on MyOpenID any more than I can control the contents of the<br>
<a href="http://myopenid.com" target="_blank">myopenid.com</a> DNS zone.<br>
<br>
Additionally, since DNS is a request->response protocol just like HTTP,<br>
there's no technical reason why you can't log requests and refuse to<br>
talk to certain clients if you wish. The domain name system is not magic.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Chris Messina<br>
Citizen-Participant &<br>
Open Technology Advocate-at-Large<br>
<a href="http://factoryjoe.com" target="_blank">factoryjoe.com</a> # <a
href="http://diso-project.org" target="_blank">diso-project.org</a><br>
<a href="http://citizenagency.com" target="_blank">citizenagency.com</a> # <a
href="http://vidoop.com" target="_blank">vidoop.com</a><br>
This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ] private<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
general mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:general@openid.net" target="_blank">general@openid.net</a><br>
<a href="http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general" target="_blank">http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Chris Messina<br>
Citizen-Participant &<br>
Open Technology Advocate-at-Large<br>
<a href="http://factoryjoe.com" target="_blank">factoryjoe.com</a> # <a
href="http://diso-project.org" target="_blank">diso-project.org</a><br>
<a href="http://citizenagency.com" target="_blank">citizenagency.com</a> # <a
href="http://vidoop.com" target="_blank">vidoop.com</a><br>
This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ]
private<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Chris Messina<br>
Citizen-Participant &<br>
Open Technology Advocate-at-Large<br>
<a href="http://factoryjoe.com">factoryjoe.com</a> # <a
href="http://diso-project.org">diso-project.org</a><br>
<a href="http://citizenagency.com">citizenagency.com</a> # <a
href="http://vidoop.com">vidoop.com</a><br>
This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ]
private<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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