<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
h1
{margin-top:12.0pt;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:3.0pt;
margin-left:0in;
page-break-after:avoid;
font-size:16.0pt;
font-family:Arial;}
h2
{margin-top:12.0pt;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:3.0pt;
margin-left:0in;
page-break-after:avoid;
font-size:14.0pt;
font-family:Arial;
font-style:italic;}
h3
{margin-top:12.0pt;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:3.0pt;
margin-left:0in;
page-break-after:avoid;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;}
h4
{margin-top:12.0pt;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:3.0pt;
margin-left:0in;
page-break-after:avoid;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
font-style:italic;}
p.MsoHeader, li.MsoHeader, div.MsoHeader
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
border:none;
padding:0in;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;}
p.MsoFooter, li.MsoFooter, div.MsoFooter
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
border:none;
padding:0in;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;}
p.MsoTitle, li.MsoTitle, div.MsoTitle
{margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:9.0pt;
margin-left:0in;
text-align:center;
font-size:16.0pt;
font-family:Arial;
font-weight:bold;}
p.MsoBodyText, li.MsoBodyText, div.MsoBodyText
{margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:6.0pt;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
p.MsoSubtitle, li.MsoSubtitle, div.MsoSubtitle
{margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:.25in;
margin-left:0in;
text-align:center;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.Quote, li.Quote, div.Quote
{margin-top:0in;
margin-right:.5in;
margin-bottom:6.0pt;
margin-left:.5in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
font-style:italic;}
p.Wiki, li.Wiki, div.Wiki
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
p.Graphic, li.Graphic, div.Graphic
{margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:6.0pt;
margin-left:0in;
text-align:center;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;
font-style:italic;}
span.EmailStyle26
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
/* Page Definitions */
@page
{mso-endnote-separator:url("cid:header.htm\@01C92EB4.FB34EAF0") es;
mso-endnote-continuation-separator:url("cid:header.htm\@01C92EB4.FB34EAF0") ecs;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:-132;
mso-list-type:simple;
mso-list-template-ids:-1328661930;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-tab-stop:1.25in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:1.25in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1
{mso-list-id:-131;
mso-list-type:simple;
mso-list-template-ids:-909054546;}
@list l1:level1
{mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:1.0in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l2
{mso-list-id:-130;
mso-list-type:simple;
mso-list-template-ids:531935922;}
@list l2:level1
{mso-level-tab-stop:.75in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:.75in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l3
{mso-list-id:-129;
mso-list-type:simple;
mso-list-template-ids:2046339550;}
@list l3:level1
{mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l4
{mso-list-id:-128;
mso-list-type:simple;
mso-list-template-ids:82112870;}
@list l4:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.25in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:1.25in;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l5
{mso-list-id:-127;
mso-list-type:simple;
mso-list-template-ids:-1405587484;}
@list l5:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:1.0in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:1.0in;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l6
{mso-list-id:-126;
mso-list-type:simple;
mso-list-template-ids:828961842;}
@list l6:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:.75in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:.75in;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l7
{mso-list-id:-125;
mso-list-type:simple;
mso-list-template-ids:1053828088;}
@list l7:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:.5in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
@list l8
{mso-list-id:-120;
mso-list-type:simple;
mso-list-template-ids:-2021464228;}
@list l8:level1
{mso-level-tab-stop:.25in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:.25in;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l9
{mso-list-id:-119;
mso-list-type:simple;
mso-list-template-ids:445916746;}
@list l9:level1
{mso-level-number-format:bullet;
mso-level-text:\F0B7;
mso-level-tab-stop:.25in;
mso-level-number-position:left;
margin-left:.25in;
text-indent:-.25in;
font-family:Symbol;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Chris, you bring up a very good point and
one which the OIDF needs to take action on – it’s too hard to find
this info right now. The workgroup chartering process is described a set of docs
listed at the bottom of:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <a
href="http://openid.net/foundation/intellectual-property/">http://openid.net/foundation/intellectual-property/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The key doc in PDF form is:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <a
href="http://openid.net/ipr/OpenID_Process_Document_(Final_Clean_20071221).pdf">http://openid.net/ipr/OpenID_Process_Document_(Final_Clean_20071221).pdf</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>IMHO what needs to happen is that a simple
web page description of this process needs to be written up and posted to openid.net
so that it’s much more accessible. If I weren’t so swamped I’d
volunteer to do this myself, but due to deadlines I’m under I won’t
be able to get to it for several weeks.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>In any case, all the info you need is that
doc. Basically a group of community members proposes a charter for the WG,
submits it to the Specifications Council for approval, then the WG is
chartered, folks join (and sign the IPR agreement), it does the work to produce
the spec, then the community votes on it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>=Drummond <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
general-bounces@openid.net [mailto:general-bounces@openid.net] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Chris Messina<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 15, 2008
1:00 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Johannes Ernst<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> OpenID List<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [OpenID] Combining
Google & Yahoo user experience research</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Perfect! Well, I asked Recordon about this over a month ago and I'm
still not clear on what the official policy is! I googled for "OpenID
workgroup" and came up empty; worse, I checked out <a
href="http://openid.net">openid.net</a> and found nothing either.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>How does one go about creating such a workgroup? What's required? And
how do we take the existing spec through an OpenID Extension process?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Johannes Ernst <jernst+<a
href="http://openid.net">openid.net</a>@<a href="http://netmesh.us">netmesh.us</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='word-wrap:break-word'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>What about you charter EAUT as a proper OpenID workgroup, and then we
talk? ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I really don't understand why it is not if you are serious about going
in that direction ...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Oct 14, 2008, at 20:49 , Chris Messina wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Can I take a poll? With all this talk about email address
mapping/translation -- I'm curious -- how many of you have actually read the
EAUT (email address to URL translation) spec?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a href="http://eaut.org/specs/1.0/" target="_blank">http://eaut.org/specs/1.0/</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>It seems like much of
this conversation (the productive bits) could be had on the EAUT list [1], in
order to move things forward and get the spec in a form that could be taken
into an OpenID Extension, which could then pave the way for 1) establishing
extension creation protocol and 2) make the spec ready for wider
deployment/adoption.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Not that all this talk of DNS and XRI isn't compelling, but I was
hoping that we might get a solution in place before I turn 40.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Chris<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>P.S. I was born in 1981.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>[1] <a href="http://groups.google.com/group/eaut" target="_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/eaut</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Brandon Ramirez <<a
href="mailto:brandon.s.ramirez@gmail.com" target="_blank">brandon.s.ramirez@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>It's more than just request -> response. It's also an
intriguing model for information resolution, where the trust is
centralized, but then delegated out.<br>
<br>
Why shouldn't it be used for identity resolution as well? An identity
(even more so from a computer's perspective) is merely a small set of data with
a chain of trust - just like most DNS lookups.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 10:45 PM, Martin Atkins <<a
href="mailto:mart@degeneration.co.uk" target="_blank">mart@degeneration.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>SitG Admin wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Putting it in DNS doesn't change the user-centricness, it just changes<br>
>> the means of publication.<br>
><br>
> I disagree here; to use military terminology here (as learned from<br>
> analyses of Trusted Computing) for a moment, your DNS server is not a<br>
> Trusted party for your personal information! IT does not have access to<br>
> your personal information; YOU do. If a spammer (or stalker) wants to<br>
> learn where you live (so they have a physical address for snailmail spam<br>
> or home invasion), they cannot simply ask the DNS server where you live,<br>
> because the DNS server does not possess that information - they MUST<br>
> contact you, the user, directly, and in the process of making that<br>
> request they not only make you (the user) aware of it, but provoke the<br>
> distinct possibility that you will simply refuse to tell them!<br>
><br>
> Your reply also suggested, though, that this level of control *can* be<br>
> present in DNS, which intrigues me :)<br>
><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I was not suggesting that you should put your physical address or<br>
telephone number in DNS, just that you can publish in DNS information<br>
about how that information might be obtained, much as you publish on<br>
your web site how that information might be obtained.<br>
<br>
I'd also like to point out that HTTP URLs are themselves dependent on<br>
DNS. All you gain by publishing this information over HTTP rather than<br>
DNS is a couple more layers of indirection. I can't control my identity<br>
page on MyOpenID any more than I can control the contents of the<br>
<a href="http://myopenid.com" target="_blank">myopenid.com</a> DNS zone.<br>
<br>
Additionally, since DNS is a request->response protocol just like HTTP,<br>
there's no technical reason why you can't log requests and refuse to<br>
talk to certain clients if you wish. The domain name system is not magic.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
general mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:general@openid.net" target="_blank">general@openid.net</a><br>
<a href="http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general" target="_blank">http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
general mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:general@openid.net" target="_blank">general@openid.net</a><br>
<a href="http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general" target="_blank">http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Chris Messina<br>
Citizen-Participant &<br>
Open Technology Advocate-at-Large<br>
<a href="http://factoryjoe.com" target="_blank">factoryjoe.com</a> # <a
href="http://diso-project.org" target="_blank">diso-project.org</a><br>
<a href="http://citizenagency.com" target="_blank">citizenagency.com</a> # <a
href="http://vidoop.com" target="_blank">vidoop.com</a><br>
This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ]
private<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
general mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:general@openid.net" target="_blank">general@openid.net</a><br>
<a href="http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general" target="_blank">http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
Chris Messina<br>
Citizen-Participant &<br>
Open Technology Advocate-at-Large<br>
<a href="http://factoryjoe.com">factoryjoe.com</a> # <a
href="http://diso-project.org">diso-project.org</a><br>
<a href="http://citizenagency.com">citizenagency.com</a> # <a
href="http://vidoop.com">vidoop.com</a><br>
This email is: [ ] bloggable [X] ask first [ ]
private<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>