<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">My main concern is that the federated model doesn't support IDP's who use URL's for users. Now, with my "MySpace" hat on, I am biased towards URL-based identity, since our users will leverage their vanity URL as their OpenID, but I imagine that blogs, etc. are all in a similar situation where we want to acclimate our users to thinking of themselves as URL's.<div><br></div><div>While EAUT is definitely a great service for IDP's that are e-mail based, designing a federated login system around "Enter your eMail Address" does worry me.</div><div><br></div><div>I'd love to see RP's move towards similar design patterns like this to help users get acclimated to Federated Login, but do want to make sure that it would be extensible to non-email based OP's. </div><div><br></div><div>_max</div><div><br><div><div>On Sep 23, 2008, at 8:55 AM, Eric Sachs wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div>>> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; ">I do have a security concern with this approach in that most likely the AOL user will enter their AOL password because of the past experience. This causes a security leak for the user even if <a href="http://buy.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(119, 153, 187); ">buy.com</a> is not just throwing away the value.</span></div> <div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;">Yes, we did see that in user's who came back the "second time." However the RP can detect that case, and warn the user of the mistake they are making which should also help train them in the future both on this RP, and others. The IDP can also try to warn the user on the first identity verification step to avoid making that mistake, but that is not as a good a "trainable moment." Along these same lines, we saw that by adding icons for IDPs to a login box, the pretty sizeable % of users immediately tried to enter their IDP E-mail/password directly into the login box. Allen Tom from Yahoo shared some data last week that showed they saw the same thing. I don't think there is a 100% perfect solution here, but the worst case is that RPs don't support federated login at all and end users just choose to use the same login/password as their E-mail provider across lots of other sites (and our stats indicate that most sadly do).</span></div> <div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; "><br>>> Would it not be possible to use AJAX to check the user's entered email address against the <a href="http://buy.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(119, 153, 187); ">buy.com</a> data base to see if they've registered and if so, hide all the options and just show the user the login button? Or maybe replace the "Help me login" and "I have a password" options with text that says, "you are already a member of <a href="http://buy.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(119, 153, 187); ">buy.com</a> via your AOL identity. All you have to do is click the login button?" I suppose that might scare some users because they would think their account doesn't have any password at all.</span></div> <div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: collapse; ">This was an idea we considered and is on our list to evaluate, but we don't have any usability data on it yet. Technically there were some concerns about how well this would interact with browser auto-fill of login box information. It would be great if a live RP tried out a model like this and reported back the results.<br> <br></span></div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 8:02 AM, George Fletcher <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gffletch@aol.com">gffletch@aol.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"> Some thoughts after reading through the summary (<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/oauthgoog/UXFedLogin" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/oauthgoog/UXFedLogin</a>) page...<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Fortunately, even though they are confused, nearly all users did enter their E-mail address and clicked the login button. As long as they do that, it does not matter whether they chose Yes or No in the UI, nor does it matter whether they typed a password. Buy.com just needs to know that their domain is <a href="http://aol.com" target="_blank">aol.com</a>, and can then redirect them to AOL to verify their identity.<br> </blockquote> I do have a security concern with this approach in that most likely the AOL user will enter their AOL password because of the past experience. This causes a security leak for the user even if <a href="http://buy.com" target="_blank">buy.com</a> is not just throwing away the value.<br> <br> Would it not be possible to use AJAX to check the user's entered email address against the <a href="http://buy.com" target="_blank">buy.com</a> data base to see if they've registered and if so, hide all the options and just show the user the login button? Or maybe replace the "Help me login" and "I have a password" options with text that says, "you are already a member of <a href="http://buy.com" target="_blank">buy.com</a> via your AOL identity. All you have to do is click the login button?" I suppose that might scare some users because they would think their account doesn't have any password at all.<br> <br> Great research. It really helps to identify the problematic cases and where we need to focus UI efforts.<br> <br> Thanks,<br> George<br> <br> <br> Eric Sachs wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="Ih2E3d"> Last Week the OpenID Foundation held the first meeting of their Content Provider Advisory Committee to gather feedback on how to evolve the best practices for using OpenID so that it might be used by websites in a larger number of market segments. The meeting included representatives from many mainstream content websites including The New York Times, BBC, AARP, Time Inc., and NPR. I attended from Google, and thought the team who pulled together the meeting did a great job arranging it.<br> <br> Google has been researching federated login techniques, and at the meeting we showed how a traditional login box might evolve (see below) to a new style of login box that better supports federated login.<br> <br></div> <<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/oauthgoog/UXFedLogin" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/oauthgoog/UXFedLogin</a>><br> <br> We also shared a summary <<a href="http://sites.google.com/site/oauthgoog/UXFedLogin" target="_blank">http://sites.google.com/site/oauthgoog/UXFedLogin</a>> of our usability research that explains how this helps a website add support for federated login for some users without hurting usability for the rest of the website's user base. This research is not yet finalized, and we are still working with a bunch of companies to gather more feedback to tune this research. If you have any feedback, feel free to get in touch with me. However more generally we hope people will continue to contribute to the user experience discussions that are happening regarding many different use cases for OpenID, and not just the one covered in this research document.<div class="Ih2E3d"> <br> <br> p.s. For Google's original blog post on this research, please refer to <a href="http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2008/09/usability-research-on-federated-login.html" target="_blank">http://google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2008/09/usability-research-on-federated-login.html</a><br> <br> Eric Sachs<br> Product Manager, Google Security<br> <br></div> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> general mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:general@openid.net" target="_blank">general@openid.net</a><br> <a href="http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general" target="_blank">http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general</a><br> <br> </blockquote> </blockquote></div><br></div> _______________________________________________<br>general mailing list<br><a href="mailto:general@openid.net">general@openid.net</a><br>http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general<br></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>