[OpenID] Open Challenge to webfinger and XRD

[Santosh Rajan]

What is the difference between "describing meta data of root http resource"
and "describing meta data of the host" from a DNS point of view? None. They
are the same. It can be described by a URI. "http://example.com".

On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 3:50 AM, Dirk Balfanz <balfanz at google.com> wrote:

> XRD prescribes an (optional) Subject element, which is a URI. The URI in
> the Subject element is the URI of the resource that is described by this
> XRD.
>
> So,
>
> <Subject>http://example.com</Subject> // describes meta data of root http
> resource in example.com
> <Subject>http://example.com/</Subject> // describes meta data of root http
> resource in example.com
>
> which leaves us with the question of how to say "this document describes
> meta-data data for the host example.com". The current thinking for
> host-meta is to say something like
>
> <Host>example.com</Host> // describes meta-data of host example.com
>
> where the Host element is a string, not a URI. For some background, see
> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xri/200908/msg00127.html and
> responses.
>
> Regarding civility: all-caps is not very polite. calling people idiots is
> not very polite (well, I guess you merely implied it). using lots of
> exclamation marks is not very polite.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dirk.
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi John,Let me get this strait here. I am unable to participate in the
>> OASIS discussions because I haven't figured the process yet. And in any case
>> all this has a bearing on OpenID, (it is the no 1 use case).
>> What you are saying is
>> 1) The host-meta will (MUST) have a <Subject> Element which will be the
>> domain URL of the host. There will be no <Host> element instead.
>> 2) (This is not something you have said explicitly) . All XRD's including
>> host-meta "MUST" have "1" <Subject> element as an immediate child element of
>> the XRD Root whose value is a URI describing the subject of the XRD.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 3:04 AM, John Bradley <ve7jtb at ve7jtb.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Santosh,
>>>
>>> That was a thread on the use of signing elements in <Link> elements.
>>>
>>> Dirk's use of <Host> in his example XRD is not valid XRD syntax.
>>>
>>> It wasn't commented on because it was not the topic of the email thread.
>>>
>>> If you have comments on the XRD spec.
>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/34724/xrd-1.0-wd09.html
>>>
>>> You are welcome to submit them through the formal process.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> John Bradley
>>>
>>> On 2009-10-19, at 5:51 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi John,
>>>> The last time I saw an example of an XRD host-meta is here on 15th Oct
>>>> here
>>>> http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xri/200910/msg00055.html
>>>>
>>>> It has a <Host> instead of <Subject>. If you are saying that it is not
>>>> part
>>>> of the XRD spec and it is part of the host-meta spec, it still doesnt
>>>> change
>>>> my argument. As an end-user of the the discovery mechanism the effect is
>>>> still the same for me.
>>>>
>>>> You say you have a hard time following me! Isn't it a case of the pot
>>>> calling the kettle black? How many people are going to follow what you
>>>> have
>>>> said bellow. I will only quote one sentence you have written and ignore
>>>> the
>>>> rest.
>>>>
>>>> "The Subject of a XRD is the <Subject> of the XRD there can be 0 or 1
>>>> in an XRD."
>>>>
>>>> That is exactly what you said. Now tell me how can there be a "0"
>>>> <Subject>
>>>> for an XRD. What meaning does an XRD have with "0" <Subject>?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John Bradley-9 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Santosh,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am having a hard time following your point.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the current draft of the XRD spec.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/34724/xrd-1.0-wd09.html
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no <Host>  element in the spec.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Subject of a XRD is the <Subject> of the XRD there can be 0 or 1
>>>>> in an XRD.
>>>>>
>>>>> HostMeta is a spec that uses the OASIS XRD spec.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know that they want to have what is essentially an abstract Subject.
>>>>>
>>>>> ie one that is about the host and not the URI.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a URL problem and not an XRI one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any number of wars have been fought over how to represent non-
>>>>> information resources with URI.
>>>>>
>>>>> We did give the group working on host-meta as a itef spec some options
>>>>> on how they might do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Using the DNS scheme or a URI fragment are all possibilities.  I don't
>>>>> know if they have come to a conclusion.   Whatever they decide someone
>>>>> will be unhappy if history is anything to go by on this topic.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is a public review period for XRD coming up and a process for
>>>>> you to make formal submissions if you want to have input but not join
>>>>> the TC.
>>>>>
>>>>> John B.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2009-10-19, at 3:27 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> This is an Open Challenge i am sending to the webfinger, XRD forums.
>>>>>> These
>>>>>> guys really think I am an Idiot. "Maybe I am". "BUT I AM NOT GOING
>>>>>> DOWN
>>>>>> WITHOUT A FIGHT".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Really, I really don't know. Let us hear the arguments they give.
>>>>>> Maybe i am
>>>>>> a brainless stupid, that is why i feel all of them are hollow. But
>>>>>> let them
>>>>>> prove I am stupid. "IF THEY CAN", IF they can, we will hand it to
>>>>>> them, "THE
>>>>>> IDENTITY OSCAR".
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,I know you guys don't like to hear from me. I have been told
>>>>>> so much.
>>>>>> By your moderators. That people on this forum are not "Happy" to
>>>>>> hear from
>>>>>> me.
>>>>>> Like it or "NOT" you are going to hear from me. I am not sure if
>>>>>> this post
>>>>>> of mine will be allowed to be published. But let us see.
>>>>>> I have so many grouses with "XRD" and today I am going to start with
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> first grouse. Since WebFinger by definition is going to follow XRD,
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> argue with me about webfinger. Lets talk about XRD to start with me.
>>>>>> I am throwing a challenge to all the XRD guys. Prove to me that the
>>>>>> <Subject> of an XRD host-meta document has to be <Host> instead of
>>>>>> <Subject>. If you "smart" guys can prove this to me, I will agree
>>>>>> that "I am
>>>>>> a complete Idiot". If "NOT" all of you web fingerer's and XRD's are
>>>>>> Idiots!!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Santosh Rajan
>>>>>> http://santrajan.blogspot.com http://santrajan.blogspot.com
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Open-Challenge-to-webfinger-and-XRD-tp25963216p25963216.html
>>>>>> Sent from the OpenID - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> general mailing list
>>>>>> general at lists.openid.net
>>>>>> http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> general mailing list
>>>>> general at lists.openid.net
>>>>> http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>>
>>>> Santosh Rajan
>>>> http://santrajan.blogspot.com http://santrajan.blogspot.com
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Open-Challenge-to-webfinger-and-XRD-tp25963216p25965303.html
>>>> Sent from the OpenID - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> general mailing list
>>>> general at lists.openid.net
>>>> http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-general
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://hi.im/santosh
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>


-- 
http://hi.im/santosh
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