[OpenID] On the banning of Santosh

[Dave Kearns]

+1

-dave
  -----Original Message-----
  From: openid-general-bounces at lists.openid.net
[mailto:openid-general-bounces at lists.openid.net]On Behalf Of DeWitt Clinton
  Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 11:43 AM
  To: sappenin at gmail.com
  Cc: board at lists.openid.net; general at openid.net
  Subject: Re: [OpenID] On the banning of Santosh


  David,


  Regarding the your first point, Santosh called someone here "a stupid,
idiotic, prejudiced human being."  An unprovoked attack, and just the latest
incident in a long, long pattern of similar slurs.


  If we're going to tolerate that behavior here, I'll take my time and
attention elsewhere.


  This has absolutely nothing to do with the points Santosh is trying to
make (some of which I actually enjoy reading).  It has everything to do with
creating an environment in which people can collaborate successfully.


  Thank you to David Recordon for actually doing something and not just
turning a blind eye to inappropriate behavior.  If people insulted each
other this way at a conference or in a meeting they'd be asked to leave
until they cooled off (or more likely, asked not to return at all).   We
shouldn't condone equally disruptive conduct here just because we're online.


  -DeWitt


  On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 11:02 AM, David Fuelling <sappenin at gmail.com>
wrote:

    David,

    I strongly disagree with your banning of Santosh, if even only for 30
days.  Here's why:


      1.. Santosh's "offenses" may seem [insert negative adjective here],
but they don't warrant a ban.  Some people construed his remarks a
"disrespectful", but this is a relative term.  If Santosh feels some people
are stupid, I believe he should be free to voice that opinion.  The person
being called stupid is free to disagree or ignore.  Are we really so
thin-skinned that we can't handle somebody describing us with a term that we
don't like?


      2.. This sets a dangerous precedent.  Because a few people chirped in
and said they wanted him gone (and you happened to agree), he's now gone?  I
respect all of the work you've put into OpenID (especially like setting up
these lists), but I don't think that people should be banned for trying to
defend themselves, even if it's in an ungraceful way.  I do think that there
should be a clear OIDF policy here (for things like spam), but in general I
would argue for a policy of freedom -- let people say what they will, no
matter how "disrespectful" because one person's "noise" is another person's
"signal".


      3.. Politeness as a bar for list participation is a bad idea -- the
whole idea of politeness is murky, and sometimes being polite discourages
technical debate.  Besides, who of use should be the one defining what is
polite and what is not?  I would argue nobody should be given that
responsibility nor that authority.


      4.. Finally, what of the people on this list who have responded to
Santosh by calling him a variety of names, including "disrespectful"?
Should they not be banned as well, for isn't it "disrespectful" to call
somebody "disrespectful"?

    I respectfully request that you un-ban Santosh from this list
immediately so we can put this episode behind us.  If there are those on
this list who do not like what Santosh has to say, then they are free to
ignore his words (though to my above points, I haven't seen much of this
happening lately).

    Sincerely,

    David Fuelling

    sappenin at gmail.com



    On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 7:06 PM, David Recordon <recordond at gmail.com>
wrote:

      Having been one of the creators of this list, I've banned Santosh and
will remove that ban in 30 days.  Santosh, many people – myself included –
have very politely asked you to think about your postings within this
community and to be more respectful.  Obviously you've continued to ignore
us.


      John, MarkMail has a bunch of awesome analysis tools for many
different open source mailing lists. http://markmail.org/search/?q=openid



      --David





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