[OpenID] Community Opinion on OID 2.1 Discovery and Identifiers...

[David Fuelling]

Replies inline...

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 7:28 PM, John Bradley <john.bradley at wingaa.com>wrote:

> David,
> I tried to vote but RPX and Jyte seems to have some issue with me :)
>

Wierd, aren't those two products made by the same company?


>
> One option that should be discussed is abstracting all identifiers out of
> the core spec.
>

+1


>
> When I originally proposed that last year in the early 2.1 discussions it
> was rejected.
>
> Unless we have some reasonable abstraction layer for identifiers adding new
> ones will never work properly.
>

Can you detail this a bit more?  Maybe I'm missing something, but if 2.1
says something like, "an identifier that can be resolved to an XRD document
is can be used", wouldn't this work?  If we have an XRD, then we should be
able to do the OpenID dance.



>
> My proposal is that all identifiers including URL are removed from the core
> spec and placed in there respective binding extension documents.
>

I am open to this.  More and more I'm leaning towards the idea that their
should be "Identifier" parity...namely, if you can give me an XRD, then you
can be my identifier (somebody should write a song with that title).

If this is rejected due to the argument that developers are only willing to
> read one document, then my argument that leaving URL in the core spec makes
> all the other identifiers second class citizens is proved.
>

I think the JSF (XMPP) has disproved this, at least from the perspective
that a successful spec can have a "core", with supplemental pieces of the
spec.  Whether or not XMPP is more difficult to understand than OpenID is
debatable.


> This again raises the question of what is openID.  Is it an authentication
> protocol,  a discovery methodology,  a Identity abstraction layer for
> applications,  or a marketing term?
>

I think OpenID is a little bit of each.

I might re-frame the question to be "how to we enable OpenID to play in all
of these different areas".  I think a good solution would be a more modular
spec.


>
> I think we need to understand the answers to the latter questions before
> deciding what should be in the core spec.
>
> John B.
>
> On 5-Jun-09, at 3:00 PM, general-request at openid.net wrote:
>
> Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 18:51:48 +0000
> From: David Fuelling <sappenin at gmail.com>
> Subject: [OpenID] Community Opinion on OID 2.1 Discovery and
> Identifiers...
> To: general at openid.net
> Message-ID:
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>
> The point below (about the community needing to decide if it's going to
> support webfinger) is just one of many questions I'd like community to
> decide concerning OID Auth 2.1 Discovery and Identifier support.
>
> Maybe this is where a WG should be formed....I'm not really sure.  It seems
> kind of backwards to form a working group about something like email
> identifiers (e.g.) and then come back to the community with some decision.
> It seems like the community should reach some consensus first, and then we
> start a WG.  Perhaps I have the wrong notion of what a Working Group is.
>
> At any rate, *in the absence of a WG* on any of these issues, I'm curious
> to
> know the community's opinion on these questions so we can all know what the
> general consensus is.
>
> So, at the risk of igniting a firestorm, I created a bunch of Jyte claims
> and embedded them in the wiki.  Please share your vote (and thus your
> opinion) if you so wish.
>
> https://openid.pbworks.com/Identifier-and-Discovery-2_1-Questions
>
> Also, please note that I'm not authoritative about the questions.  Feel
> free
> to embed your own claim into the wiki page (though I tried to be fair in
> the
> framing of the questions).
>
> David
>
> On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 4:38 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 11:33 PM, Dirk Balfanz <balfanz at google.com> wrote:
>
>
> I Webfinger gives you everything you need. The OpenID community just needs
>
> to decide whether the email-like identifiers falling out of webfinger are
>
> acceptable OpenIDs.
>
>
>
>
> I think you have a raised a very valid issue here. I didn't realize that
>
> first time round. You are right. I don't see any point in continuing with
>
> the email issue without a clear answer to this question.
>
>
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