[OpenID] OpenID Discovery for Email like identifiers - Draft 0.1

Fri Jun 5 02:34:46 UTC 2009

On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Chris Messina <chris.messina at gmail.com>wrote:

> It's at least not clear to me that we'd finish our own version of
> WebFinger/XRD discovery before the groups already invested in those
> protocols...!

Who said we are going to "finish our own version of WebFinger/XRD
discovery"?

> What track record do we have in getting specs to market in the last 6-12
> months?
>

I was not here in the last 6-12 months so I wouldnt know. But what you said
does not bode well for what i would like to to see in the coming 6-12
months.

> In any case, I don't think that any of this prevents us from advancing a
> collection of use cases on the wiki *in advance* of starting the WG. There's
> nothing to stop that work, so I would highly recommend spending energy and
> effort there, rather than justifying that on this list.
>

Justifying what on this list? I have put an argument in my previous post,
and so far you havent answered it.

>
> Work should speak for itself; once momentum exists, then I think it'll be
> easier to justify and get a real WG off the ground (either for 2.1 or some
> other related effort).
>

Looks like you have side stepped the whole issue. Let me put my question
again for you.

"Are you all confident that the above is not the case and that we can
happily
wait for webfinger/xrd to finish their work and simply plug and play it into
2.1?"

> Chris
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 6:05 PM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> I think you have missed the point.
>>
>> There is a need for developing a webfinger use-case vis-a-vis OpenID. Your
>> assumption that you can "plug and play" it into OpenID is too simplistic.
>> I
>> can see a potential "chicken and the egg" situation developing here.
>>
>> What if webfinger/xrd is stalled precisely because they don't have enough
>> use-case/feedback to finalize their specs?
>> What if webfinger/xrd is stalled because they are stuck between differing
>> viewpoints? In this case our feedback may come in  handy to resolve the
>> issue.
>> What if webfinger/xrd is stalled because of some other reason we can't
>> think
>> of?
>>
>> Are you all confident that the above is not the case and that we can
>> happily
>> wait for webfinger/xrd to finish their work and simply plug and play it
>> into
>> 2.1?
>>
>> I think the idea that we should sit here and do nothing is ridiculous.
>>
>>
>> sappenin wrote:
>> >
>> > Replies inline...
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 5:10 AM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> The way I see it we are the "end-users" for webfinger and XRD. Their
>> >> objective will be to cater to the our requirements and others like us.
>> We
>> >> need not wait for them to get on with our work. Actually they can use
>> our
>> >> feedback to refine and fine tune their work.
>> >>
>> >
>> > With regard to webfinger, that spec needs to be "specified" before we
>> can
>> > use it in OpenID 2.1.  My thinking is that it would be helpful to start
>> > formalizing webfinger since in the OpenID 2.1 spec, there will probably
>> > just
>> > be a single sentence or two saying, "email-like identifiers are
>> supported
>> > in
>> > OpenID discovery by using the webfinger protocol".
>> >
>> > From a specification development perspective, I'm not sure there's a lot
>> > more we need to do on the OpenID side when it comes to email
>> identifiers,
>> > except resolve any issues relating to IPR.  Do you agree?
>> >
>> > That said, how do we resolve the IPR issues surrounding webfinger
>> > (basically, all the points Chris Messina mentioned in his previous
>> > message).  To me this hinges on the webfinger folks picking some sort of
>> > formalized standards process to work in, so that OpenID can use it
>> > properly.
>> >
>> > If you look at XRD, that's moving forward inside of OASIS.  OAuth is
>> > moving
>> > forward inside of IETF.  There's the OWF, but I'm not sure if they're
>> > ready
>> > to "house" a spec just yet.  And lastly, there's the OpenID Foundation
>> > (though admitedly this seems like an odd place to house webfinger).
>> >
>> >
>> >> So I think we should form a working group of people like you, who have
>> >> already worked on this, and others who may want to work on this.
>> >>
>> >
>> >> But I also agree with Chris's view that we don't need more working
>> groups
>> >> and need to fold this into 2.1.
>> >>
>> >
>> > +1.  I don't think OpenID 2.1 Discovery needs its own working group,
>> > because
>> > I can see that section being only 2 sentences (I'm oversimplifying, but
>> > you
>> > get the idea):
>> >
>> >    1. OpenID discovery can be used on any identifier that is
>> discoverable
>> >    via XRD.
>> >    2. Email-like identifier discovery should use webfinger.
>> >
>> > The only two reasons i can think of for the need of a separate working
>> > group
>> >> is to maintain momentum, and to have a group people solely focussed on
>> >> discovery part of 2.1.
>> >
>> >
>> > I think the people focusing on Discovery are already alive and kicking
>> in
>> > the XRD TC.  They're going to solve Discovery in a general sort of way,
>> > allowing OpenID to utilize it in a specific manner.  In essence, the XRD
>> > folks are doing most of the work already.
>> >
>> > Moving forward, we need to figure out how OpenID 2.1 is going to be able
>> > to
>> > use WebFinger.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > general mailing list
>> > general at openid.net
>> > http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> -----
>>
>> Santosh Rajan
>> http://santrajan.blogspot.com http://santrajan.blogspot.com
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://www.nabble.com/OpenID-Discovery-for-Email-like-identifiers---Draft-0.1-tp23832524p23880571.html
>> Sent from the OpenID - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> general mailing list
>> general at openid.net
>> http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Messina
> Open Web Advocate
>
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>
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>
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