[OpenID] [LIKELY_SPAM]Re: Starting new OpenID Workgroups (was RE:Combining Google & Yahoo user experience research)

Peter Williams pwilliams at rapattoni.com
Thu Oct 16 04:32:53 UTC 2008


HEHE.

TRUST MODELS (the unmentionable reality of openid that prevents +actual+ interworking )

From: general-bounces at openid.net [mailto:general-bounces at openid.net] On Behalf Of Chris Messina
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 9:32 PM
To: Drummond Reed
Cc: OpenID List
Subject: [LIKELY_SPAM]Re: [OpenID] Starting new OpenID Workgroups (was RE:Combining Google & Yahoo user experience research)

I'll volunteer to transfer this document to the OpenID wiki, but it's not accepting my OpenID, so I'm stymied and can't proceed.

Who's in charge of maintaining the wiki?

Chris
On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Drummond Reed <drummond.reed at cordance.net<mailto:drummond.reed at cordance.net>> wrote:

Chris, you bring up a very good point and one which the OIDF needs to take action on - it's too hard to find this info right now. The workgroup chartering process is described a set of docs listed at the bottom of:



            http://openid.net/foundation/intellectual-property/



The key doc in PDF form is:



            http://openid.net/ipr/OpenID_Process_Document_(Final_Clean_20071221).pdf



IMHO what needs to happen is that a simple web page description of this process needs to be written up and posted to openid.net<http://openid.net> so that it's much more accessible. If I weren't so swamped I'd volunteer to do this myself, but due to deadlines I'm under I won't be able to get to it for several weeks.



In any case, all the info you need is that doc. Basically a group of community members proposes a charter for the WG, submits it to the Specifications Council for approval, then the WG is chartered, folks join (and sign the IPR agreement), it does the work to produce the spec, then the community votes on it.



=Drummond



________________________________

From: general-bounces at openid.net<mailto:general-bounces at openid.net> [mailto:general-bounces at openid.net<mailto:general-bounces at openid.net>] On Behalf Of Chris Messina
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 1:00 AM
To: Johannes Ernst
Cc: OpenID List
Subject: Re: [OpenID] Combining Google & Yahoo user experience research



Perfect! Well, I asked Recordon about this over a month ago and I'm still not clear on what the official policy is! I googled for "OpenID workgroup" and came up empty; worse, I checked out openid.net<http://openid.net> and found nothing either.



How does one go about creating such a workgroup? What's required? And how do we take the existing spec through an OpenID Extension process?



Thanks!



Chris

On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 10:26 PM, Johannes Ernst <jernst+openid.net<http://openid.net>@netmesh.us<http://netmesh.us>> wrote:

What about you charter EAUT as a proper OpenID workgroup, and then we talk? ;-)



I really don't understand why it is not if you are serious about going in that direction ...







On Oct 14, 2008, at 20:49 , Chris Messina wrote:



Can I take a poll? With all this talk about email address mapping/translation -- I'm curious -- how many of you have actually read the EAUT (email address to URL translation) spec?



http://eaut.org/specs/1.0/



It seems like much of this conversation (the productive bits) could be had on the EAUT list [1], in order to move things forward and get the spec in a form that could be taken into an OpenID Extension, which could then pave the way for 1) establishing extension creation protocol and 2) make the spec ready for wider deployment/adoption.

Not that all this talk of DNS and XRI isn't compelling, but I was hoping that we might get a solution in place before I turn 40.



Chris



P.S. I was born in 1981.



[1] http://groups.google.com/group/eaut



On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Brandon Ramirez <brandon.s.ramirez at gmail.com<mailto:brandon.s.ramirez at gmail.com>> wrote:

It's more than just request -> response.  It's also an intriguing model for information resolution,  where the trust is centralized, but then delegated out.

Why shouldn't it be used for identity resolution as well?  An identity (even more so from a computer's perspective) is merely a small set of data with a chain of trust - just like most DNS lookups.



On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 10:45 PM, Martin Atkins <mart at degeneration.co.uk<mailto:mart at degeneration.co.uk>> wrote:

SitG Admin wrote:
>
>> Putting it in DNS doesn't change the user-centricness, it just changes
>> the means of publication.
>
> I disagree here; to use military terminology here (as learned from
> analyses of Trusted Computing) for a moment, your DNS server is not a
> Trusted party for your personal information! IT does not have access to
> your personal information; YOU do. If a spammer (or stalker) wants to
> learn where you live (so they have a physical address for snailmail spam
> or home invasion), they cannot simply ask the DNS server where you live,
> because the DNS server does not possess that information - they MUST
> contact you, the user, directly, and in the process of making that
> request they not only make you (the user) aware of it, but provoke the
> distinct possibility that you will simply refuse to tell them!
>
> Your reply also suggested, though, that this level of control *can* be
> present in DNS, which intrigues me :)
>

I was not suggesting that you should put your physical address or
telephone number in DNS, just that you can publish in DNS information
about how that information might be obtained, much as you publish on
your web site how that information might be obtained.

I'd also like to point out that HTTP URLs are themselves dependent on
DNS. All you gain by publishing this information over HTTP rather than
DNS is a couple more layers of indirection. I can't control my identity
page on MyOpenID any more than I can control the contents of the
myopenid.com<http://myopenid.com> DNS zone.

Additionally, since DNS is a request->response protocol just like HTTP,
there's no technical reason why you can't log requests and refuse to
talk to certain clients if you wish. The domain name system is not magic.


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--
Chris Messina
Citizen-Participant &
 Open Technology Advocate-at-Large
factoryjoe.com<http://factoryjoe.com> # diso-project.org<http://diso-project.org>
citizenagency.com<http://citizenagency.com> # vidoop.com<http://vidoop.com>
This email is:   [ ] bloggable    [X] ask first   [ ] private



--
Chris Messina
Citizen-Participant &
 Open Technology Advocate-at-Large
factoryjoe.com<http://factoryjoe.com> # diso-project.org<http://diso-project.org>
citizenagency.com<http://citizenagency.com> # vidoop.com<http://vidoop.com>
This email is:   [ ] bloggable    [X] ask first   [ ] private
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