[OpenID] W3C TAG recommends against XRI

[Drummond Reed]

Andy,

I respect your opinion, before you judge to hastily, I urge you to review
both...

	http://wiki.oasis-open.org/xri/XriSolvesRealProblems 

...and the paper presented at the IDtrust Symposium in February:

	
http://middleware.internet2.edu/idtrust/2008/papers/01-reed-openid-xri-xrds.
pdf

Rather than rejecting the XRI scheme outright simply because it is not
HTTP(S) URIs, I'd be interested in your specific feedback with regard to
both the technical and usability merits (both of which motivated the last
five years of work on XRI at OASIS).

=Drummond  


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Powell [mailto:andy.powell at eduserv.org.uk]
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 12:56 AM
> To: Dick Hardt; Drummond Reed
> Cc: OpenID List
> Subject: RE: [OpenID] W3C TAG recommends against XRI
> 
> I blogged my own, minimal, thoughts:
> 
> http://efoundations.typepad.com/efoundations/2008/05/w3c-technical-a.htm
> l
> 
> I realise now that by posting my question here I've opened the list up
> to the kind of "http URIs can't be used to identify non-Web resources"
> vs. "Oh yes they can" kinds of arguments that we've seen going on in
> other fora for the last N years.  Apologies for that!
> 
> It seems to me that the W3C TAG is now absolutely clear on this point -
> http URIs can and should be used to identify all resources (physical,
> digital and conceptual).  Frankly, I don't see who else one would ask.
> So at a technical level I don't think there is a debate to be had.  XRIs
> don't add value over what we have in http URIs, they potentially do some
> harm, and they should therefore be avoided.
> 
> For me, the success of OpenID (and pretty much everything else for that
> matter) is tightly coupled to its fit with the Web Architecture - XRI
> now clearly damages that fit.  On that basis, from a Web architecture
> point of view, I think that the introduction of XRI into the 2.0 spec
> was a mistake and the quicker we recognise that and do something about
> it the better.
> 
> That leaves us with the "human factors" issues that others have noted -
> are ordinary people willing to treat an http URI as an identifier for
> people?  I don't know.  I'd like to see more real evidence of this one
> way or another.  It requires some level of cultural shift - but we've
> seen such things in the past.  The more people who shout "this will
> never work" the more self-fulfilling the prophecy becomes.  On the other
> hand I also appreciate that the TAG could simply be wrong - they are a
> *technical* group after all.  I happen to agree with them, but...
> well...
> 
> So, I suppose what I'm saying is
> 
> - we should acknowledge that adoption of XRI into 2.0 was a mistake
> (which I appreciate is a non-trivial thing to say)
> 
> - we should be unequivocal and unapologetic about saying that http URIs
> can and should be used to identify people
> 
> - we should work on the usability issues around OpenID on that basis
> 
> Andy
> --
> Head of Development, Eduserv Foundation
> http://www.eduserv.org.uk/foundation/
> http://efoundations.typepad.com/
> andy.powell at eduserv.org.uk
> +44 (0)1225 474319
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: general-bounces at openid.net
> > [mailto:general-bounces at openid.net] On Behalf Of Dick Hardt
> > Sent: 22 May 2008 23:20
> > To: Drummond Reed
> > Cc: OpenID List
> > Subject: Re: [OpenID] W3C TAG recommends against XRI
> >
> > Drummond, would be interested to hear your comments on this topic.
> >
> > -- Dick
> >
> > On 22-May-08, at 2:07 PM, Andy Powell wrote:
> >
> > > In a message to the W3C Technical Architecture Group list yesterday
> > >
> > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2008May/0078.html
> > >
> > > Tim Berners-Lee and Stuart Williams, co-chairs of the TAG state
> > > categorically, "We are not satisfied that XRIs provide
> > functionality
> > > not readily available from http: URIs.  Accordingly the TAG
> > recommends
> > > against taking the XRI specifications forward, or
> > supporting the use
> > > of XRIs as identifiers in other specifications".
> > >
> > > Is there a view here about whether this has any impact on
> > the current
> > > adoption of XRI in the OpenID 2.0 spec?
> > >
> > > Andy
> > > --
> > > Head of Development, Eduserv Foundation
> > > http://www.eduserv.org.uk/foundation/
> > > http://efoundations.typepad.com/
> > > andy.powell at eduserv.org.uk
> > > +44 (0)1225 474319
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > general mailing list
> > > general at openid.net
> > > http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > general mailing list
> > general at openid.net
> > http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general
> >