[OpenID] Affliating OpenID sign ups

Fri Mar 14 04:03:47 UTC 2008

Chris,

You are a wise man with the scars to show for it.

Thank you for giving us a good example to cite if anyone sees a "SenderID"
happening to OpenID.

=Drummond 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Drake [mailto:christopher at pobox.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 7:02 PM
> To: Drummond Reed
> Cc: 'Bill Washburn'; 'Peter Williams'; general at openid.net
> Subject: Re[2]: [OpenID] Affliating OpenID sign ups
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone remember SPF?  It was a brilliant standard to block email
> forgery.  Microsoft started out trying to compete (Caller-ID for
> Email) but since the open SPF standard had more momentum, MS jumped on
> board (with a re-name to SenderID) - after taking out a stack of
> patents to confuse the issue.  Next, Yahoo thought they could do
> better so they ripped off the idea (DomainKeys), which of course
> didn't do better, so they modified it (and renamed to DKIM).
> Finally - pretty much everyone lost the plot (the plot was to prevent
> email forgery, and everyone lost it when they lost the ability to
> understand the difference between spam and forgery.  Everyone knew
> spammers would simply start signing spam, so none of it was ever about
> anti-spam work - but hey).  All the standards now have retrofitted
> dodgey new anti-spam ideas, so we now have SPFv2 which isn't
> compatible with SPF, isn't distinguishable from SPFv1, and forces all
> the original SPF authors to upgrade to v2, or suffer
> false-positive-nightmares.  And we have DKIM which simply destroys the
> entire markets of email middleware, forwarding, maillinglists, and so
> on, all while hiking up false-positive problems for everyone.
> 
> I'm sure there's a lesson to be learned here.  There seem to be a lot
> of forces pulling at OpenID nowdays, just like SPF had.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Chris Drake,
> =1id.com
> 
> 
> Friday, March 14, 2008, 10:41:43 AM, you wrote:
> 
> DR> +1. Well said, Bill. I would go so far asto say some of the
> DR> corporations now involved are here BECAUSE it is acommunity-led
> DR> effort. The only way that would ever change is if the
> DR> communitystops leading.
> 
> DR>
> 
> DR> Given the set of voices we have here
Idon’t see that happening any
> time soon ;-)
> 
> DR>
> 
> DR> =Drummond
> 
> DR>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DR> From:general-bounces at openid.net
> DR> [mailto:general-bounces at openid.net] On Behalf Of Bill Washburn
> DR> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 20085:08 PM
> DR> To: Peter Williams
> DR> Cc: general at openid.net
> DR> Subject: Re: [OpenID] AffliatingOpenID sign ups
> 
> 
> DR>
> 
> DR> Hey...Peter,
> 
> DR> Dare to make a positive difference!  Why don't you fight the
> DR> good fightand help the OpenID *community* flourish by doing a good
> DR> thing: joining,voting, helping make the mettle of governance in
> DR> the community a littlestronger with your strident opinions?  Or as
> DR> the old saying goes, Ratherthan shout at the darkness, light a
> DR> candle.
> 
> DR> As I see it, there are no immutable laws of the universe,
> DR> natural or otherwise,written in stone somewhere that compel the
> DR> inevitability of your logic thatcorporate interests must win and
> DR> community interests must suffer. OIDF is fully an intentional
> DR> design by the OpenID Foundation Board to sustainand help the
> DR> OpenID community.  Help us keep the founding charter as itcame
> DR> from Brad et al. to serve everyone freely as envisioned.
> DR> Indeed,this intentional community is known well to the entire
> DR> Board. Nothing elsewould do.
> 
> DR> cheers,
> DR> -bill
> 
> DR> On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 12:21 PM, Peter Williams
> DR> <pwilliams at rapattoni.com>wrote:
> 
> DR> Affiliation protocols for OPs and the clickpass' idea (sp-centric
> trust
> DR> model enforcement) are both topics that could be standardized to make
> an
> DR> open market - addressing RPs.
> 
> DR> But, the point of being a(ny) board member is to ensure that only
> DR> "certain" standards activities are actually authorized/endorsed bythe
> DR> "Board" : the ones that benefit your investments. Then you"present"
> the
> DR> rationale as "community interest", and "common good", etcetc - as to
> DR> why certain things are not engaged in.
> 
> DR> If like ICANN/DNS you had community board members per grassroot
> DR> involvement, who get all "user-interest focused" vs
> DR> "corporate/money/defense focused" you change the governance rules so
> DR> there simply are no more community board seats :-). Only
> govt/corporate
> DR> types are allowed in the club.
> 
> DR> Be fun to see how long the "nobody owns this" philosophy lasts, nowbig
> DR> money is in the air. I give it 6 months, till folks are fighting in
> the
> DR> backroom over stuff. Nobody owns it will suddenly turn into ... well
> DR> what we meant on referred "the core protocol". Of course!"service
> DR> innovations" are allowed (that the Board will not allow to be
> DR> standardized) that only some parties will own!
> 
> DR> Governance is hard. The early adoptors have to have some early lead -
> to
> DR> payoff the bets and investments. But, standards means they don't get
> DR> much of a head start, over the mere "followers". Governance issupposed
> DR> to allow politics to manage those contrary goals. Governance always
> DR> tests the mettle of a community.
> 
> DR> Peter.
> 
> 
> 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: general-bounces at openid.net[mailto:general-bounces at openid.net]
> DR> On
> >> Behalf Of Chris Obdam
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 10:26 AM
> >> To: general at openid.net
> >> Subject: [OpenID] Affliating OpenID sign ups
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> myOpenID facilitates OpenID consumers a sign p service. It's called
> >> affliliating. Are there plans integrating this kind of functionality
> >> in to OpenID?
> >>
> >> Greetings,
> >>
> >> Chris Obdam
> >> OpenID Netherlands
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> general mailing list
> >> general at openid.net
> >> http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general
> DR> _______________________________________________
> DR> general mailing list
> DR> general at openid.net
> DR> http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general
> 
> 
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> DR>
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> 