<html><body><div dir="ltr">I have pushed the <a href="https://github.com/openid/death-and-the-digital-estate/wiki/2025%E2%80%9005%E2%80%9016-Minutes">meeting notes</a> for May 16, 2025 to the DADE Wiki. A copy of the notes is below.<div><br></div><div><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;color:rgb(31,35,40);font-variant-ligatures:normal;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;margin-top:0px!important;margin-bottom:0px!important"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:16px;margin-bottom:16px"><font face=".SF NS">Attendees</font></p><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">Dean Saxe (Beyond Identity)</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">George Fletcher (Practical Identity LLC)</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Tim L</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Przemek Praszczalek</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Mike Kiser (SailPoint)</font></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:16px;margin-bottom:16px"><font face=".SF NS">Note taker: Mike Kiser</font></p></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:16px;margin-bottom:16px"><font face=".SF NS">Welcome and antitrust policy reminder</font></p></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:16px;margin-bottom:16px"><font face=".SF NS">Upcoming meetings</font></p><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">2025-05-28 3:00 PM PDT</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">2025-06-13 7:00 AM PDT</font></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:16px;margin-bottom:16px"><font face=".SF NS">Agenda bashing?</font></p><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">George - breadth and reach of digital footprint, how do we help people figure out what it is?</font><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">Received an email from the local road tolling company</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">How does someone trying to clean up a person's affairs determine the breadth of the digital estate?</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Access to email/SMS is a good way to discover this</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">but access is dependent upon the relationship</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">what if the relationship is rocky? What if the relationship has elements of dishonesty?</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">George thinks impersonation remains one of the best tools we have to discover breadth/depth of the digital estate</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Impersonation is easier, presumably - outside of impersonation, how do you discover the range...and what they have at the time</font></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Dean - file and issue so that we can track that idea / concept</font><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">Early september needs to be a near final draft for review by the board</font></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Victor - what about something like open source? How do we protect and mantain that oversight?</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Dean - seems like that should be in scope as well, please file an issue</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Dean - Let's talk about the latest news:</font><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">see link beflow for the yahoo article about the victim testifying in AI form</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Not the guy himself, but a recreation presented by the family</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">"Not effect in law" (Tim in chat)</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Where's personal consent in this discussion?</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">the family is using the AI voice as a sock puppet</font></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Jean -</font><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">Associated with the AD of the State of Michigan</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">No precedent - so nothing to restrict it</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Admissibility to the trial record is questionable</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Arizona law would come into play?</font></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Dean -</font><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">Odd to know that you're living in the future . . .</font></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Mike -</font><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">What are the legal rights of the deceased?</font></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Tim -</font><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><a href="https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2652135" rel="nofollow" style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(9,105,218)"><font face=".SF NS">https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2652135</font></a><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">"Death Rights: Legal Personal Representatives of Deceased Authors and the Posthumous Exercise of Moral Rights"</font></li></ul></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Jean -</font><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">HAve to work with known powers here, rather than against them , in order to make progress</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">There are IP / copyright laws here in play</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Deep fake / image has not been allowed to be used (as opposoed to an add on to existing work)</font></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">George -</font><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">Family can claim that the deceased "would say" rather than recreation</font></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Dean -</font><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">Identiverse update: Elizabeth Wharton is joining us</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">let's talk about issues</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><a href="https://github.com/openid/death-and-the-digital-estate/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3ACyberSecAwarenessMonth" style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(9,105,218)"><font face=".SF NS">https://github.com/openid/death-and-the-digital-estate/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3ACyberSecAwarenessMonth</font></a></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Przemek -</font><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">Recovery is difficult - using a password-secured Word document... even with 1Password & Trustworthy (for example)</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">"How to do recovery" guide for the family</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Issues that mobile-only users or households face?</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Some providers only support now Deviced-based Auth-N (which is problematic when you get logged out of both devices due to time limits, app refresh, or system updates, and the User has to contact the Call Center [vulnerability])</font></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Dean -</font><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">New phones / tech every year means that key / access recovery is important and essential</font></li></ul></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:16px;margin-bottom:16px"><font face=".SF NS">Review recent articles / links posted in Slack</font></p><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><a href="https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-speaks-killer-beyond-grave-151228539.html" rel="nofollow" style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(9,105,218)"><font face=".SF NS">https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-speaks-killer-beyond-grave-151228539.html</font></a></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:16px;margin-bottom:16px"><font face=".SF NS">Identiverse</font></p><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">DADE panel has added <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-wharton/" rel="nofollow" style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(9,105,218)">Elizabeth Wharton</a>, Founder, Silver Key Strategies</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Please send Dean / Mike any questions that can be covered in panel</font></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:16px;margin-bottom:16px"><font face=".SF NS">Eve M met with PAYPERS at EIC, we'll share further information when it has been published</font></p></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:16px;margin-bottom:16px"><font face=".SF NS">Planning Guide for Cyber Security Awareness Month</font></p><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">Dean authored a <a href="https://github.com/openid/death-and-the-digital-estate/blob/main/cybersecawareness2025/planning_guide_outline.md" style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(9,105,218)">first draft outline</a> for the planning guide</font><ul style="box-sizing:border-box;padding-left:2em;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px"><li style="box-sizing:border-box"><font face=".SF NS">Review draft outline</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Identify areas for improvement, volunteers to produce PRs</font></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><font face=".SF NS">Review Open Issues for <a href="https://github.com/openid/death-and-the-digital-estate/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3ACyberSecAwarenessMonth" style="box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(9,105,218)">CyberSecAwarenessMonth</a></font></li></ul></li></ul></li><li style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:0.25em"><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin-top:16px;margin-bottom:16px"><font face=".SF NS">AOB</font></p></li></ul></div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr">Thank you,</div><div dir="ltr">-dhs<br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">--<br><div dir="ltr">Dean H. Saxe, <a href="https://idpro.org/cidpro/">CIDPRO</a> (he/him)</div><div dir="ltr">Principal Engineer</div><div dir="ltr">Office of the CTO</div><div dir="ltr">Beyond Identity</div><div dir="ltr"><a href="mailto:dean.saxe@beyondidentity.com">dean.saxe@beyondidentity.com</a></div><div><br><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>