[OpenID board] Motion: allow use of OpenID trademark on Google Code (part 1 of 2)

Mon Jun 1 04:46:30 UTC 2009

Huh?
What do you propose we call it then? Are you actually opposed to calling the
project Google Code "OpenID"? Do you think that
http://code.google.com/p/oauth was the wrong name for the OAuth project?

On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 9:32 PM, Johannes Ernst <jernst at netmesh.us> wrote:

> So what's wrong with the OIDF helping to assemble an open-source project
> that does all of what you say, and that has a name OTHER than OpenID?
> The W3C doesn't call its browser "HTML" either. Imagine if it did.
>
>
>
> On May 30, 2009, at 14:58, Chris Messina wrote:
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:57 PM, Johannes Ernst <jernst at netmesh.us> wrote:
>
>> When the OIDF was started, we explicitly decided that the OIDF would not
>> maintain or endorse any particular code base.
>>
>
> I agree that we should not endorse any codebase, but I disagree that the
> foundation should not or can not provide resources, infrastructure or act as
> a convening force to facilitate the development of libraries.
>
> The OpenID libraries could be made much more usable, lightweight and
> approachable if effort and resources were put into them. The reality is that
> no one is going to do this "out of the goodness of their hearts" (least of
> all, without community momentum providing a different kind of incentive to
> participate).
>
> We finally have interest from folks to move the PHP library forward, and
> rather than have this work happen off to the side, I would really like to
> see this work happen in plain view, where others will see that this work is
> happening and then become interested in joining it.
>
> Ideally we will have a mix of board and regular members of the foundation
> running the project, and maintaining resources related to the libraries.
>
>
>>
>> While that decision can of course be overturned, I think the rationale for
>> it is as good today as it was back then -- we want OpenID supporters to
>> agree on the spec, and compete on implementations. In my view, that is
>> essential for encouraging the growth of a healthy, innovative marketplace of
>> both products and ideas.
>>
>
> I don't think that a spec alone is sufficient; you need high quality
> implementations that are also interoperable, and to that end, the foundation
> has an interest and responsibility to encourage the collaboration of
> implementors to create interoperable and compatible implementations.
>
> I also agree with using market mechanisms to increase competition, but I do
> not believe that competition will occur until you've created a baseline
> playing field in which to compete. I do think that the popup/UI extension is
> one area were we're seeing alignment and competition occur, but it is work
> that is happening to fill a void that has been made manifest by all the
> different (and confusing) implementations of OpenID in the wild.
>
> In other words, I believe that we need planes that are proven to fly before
> we can expect people to build Harrier jump jets on their own.
>
> I think that we've made tremendous progress in the last six months on
> proving the viability of OpenID in the marketplace, but I think that we have
> to double-down and make it *much easier* to implement and adopt OpenID, and
> to have it work well out of the box for folks who have not been involved in
> this community or identity technology from the beginning.
>
> And that requires clean libraries and implementations that take little
> fore-knowledge for granted and lead the way towards deploying a successful
> implementation.
>
> We don't have those resources assembled today.
>
>
>>
>> There is nothing wrong in my for the foundation to encourage a vibrant
>> OpenID open source project. Declaring it to be "the one and only" would be a
>> big mistake, however. The naming that's proposed implies to me exactly that
>> and that is worrying to me.
>>
>
> I agree with this. And that's not what is implied or intended by hosting
> the OpenID libraries on Google Code. In fact, I hope that we can even
> provide pointers to (or checkouts of) competing implementations in the same
> language in the repository, but document their strengths and differences in
> an accessible way.
>
> At the same time, I think that the goal here is to bring together a great
> deal of effort and might to push these libraries forward; I'm approaching
> using a method that I've found successful in the past and will continue to
> pursue it unless or until someone proposes an alternative and is equally
> willing to seeing it through to completion.
>
> It isn't that my approach is the only one that will work, it's just that
> it's the one that I've used successfully in the past and seems appropriate
> in this context as well.
>
> Chris
>
>
>>
>>
>> On May 29, 2009, at 18:40, Chris Messina wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Martin Atkins <mart at degeneration.co.uk>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems that github also satisfies all of the above requirements, with
>>> the advantage of making it easier to pull changes from the individual
>>> maintainer repositories due to github being designed with this in mind.
>>> Github also supports multiple repositories per account, so each library can
>>> have its own repository, maintainers, etc.
>>
>>
>> Yes, but not everyone is familiar with GIT yet. SVN is much more widely
>> known, I would think, in the general world of development at this time.
>>
>> I'm enamored by Github, but that doesn't mean that it's what everyone's
>> using yet.
>>
>>
>> (I'm also a little confused as to what the advantage is of having "a
>>> central place to check out", given that the purpose of checking out is to
>>> contribute changes and changes will be contributed somewhere else. What is
>>> the purpose of checking out a working copy of repository other than the one
>>> you want to ultimately commit to?)
>>>
>>
>> My goal is raise the visibility of the libraries and the current home on
>> OpenIDEnabled.com has failed to produce a community of active maintainers,
>> from what I've seen.
>>
>>  Perhaps it's just a matter of setting up a page at
>> http://openid.net/code that's a cleaned up version of
>> http://wiki.openid.net/Libraries. I could certainly start there.
>>
>> The purpose of checking out the latest stable version of a library (or
>> even latest unstable branch) is to enable folks to run the latest code in
>> their projects and then update them easily when new versions are released.
>> Perhaps tarballs are sufficient, but it seems like giving different
>> communities like WordPress a simple place to do an SVN checkout from would
>> be valuable.
>>
>> Feel free to tell me I'm wrong, or to support my proposal.
>>
>>
>>> Both the PHP library and the Perl library I maintain are already on
>>> github. I'd be happy to have the libnet-openid-perl repository on my github
>>> account (apparentlymart) forked into the openid account on github as long as
>>> someone's going to commit to maintaining that fork.
>>
>>
>> Unless someone steps up, it's unlikely to happen, I guess.
>>
>> But therein lies the rub: we have failed to develop a community of
>> maintainers for the OpenID libraries and I think we're worse off for it. I'm
>> attempting to get some momentum for such a community by centralizing at
>> least a listing of the libraries in a familiar place that developers are
>> used to seeing.
>>
>> GitHub doesn't provide a way to customize the homepage of a project, and
>> so we need a place that is clean, approachable, well-designed and is easy
>> for someone on the board (or some other dedicated community member(s)) to
>> maintain.
>>
>> Again, I can start with creating a page on OpenID.net, but the symbolic
>> achievement of having a central repository to me somehow seems important,
>> and is what is motivating my desire to finally make this happen.
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Messina
>> Open Web Advocate
>>
>> Website: http://factoryjoe.com
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/chrismessina
>> Facebook: http://facebook.com/chrismessina
>>
>> Diso Project: http://diso-project.org
>> OpenID Foundation: http://openid.net
>>
>> This email is:   [ ] bloggable    [X] ask first   [ ] private
>>  _______________________________________________
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>> http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/board
>>
>>
>>  Johannes Ernst
>> NetMesh Inc.
>>
>> <lid.gif> <openid.gif> http://netmesh.info/jernst
>>
>>
>>
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>> http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/board
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Chris Messina
> Open Web Advocate
>
> Website: http://factoryjoe.com
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/chrismessina
> Facebook: http://facebook.com/chrismessina
>
> Diso Project: http://diso-project.org
> OpenID Foundation: http://openid.net
>
> This email is:   [ ] bloggable    [X] ask first   [ ] private
> _______________________________________________
> board mailing list
> board at openid.net
> http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/board
>
>
> Johannes Ernst
> NetMesh Inc.
>
>   http://netmesh.info/jernst
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> board mailing list
> board at openid.net
> http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/board
>
>

-- 
Chris Messina
Open Web Advocate

Website: http://factoryjoe.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/chrismessina
Facebook: http://facebook.com/chrismessina

Diso Project: http://diso-project.org
OpenID Foundation: http://openid.net

This email is:   [ ] bloggable    [X] ask first   [ ] private
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