[OpenID board] Perception of the Foundation (Was: Fwd: [OpenID] Google's proprietary discovery extension?)

Johannes Ernst jernst at netmesh.us
Thu Jul 30 05:28:57 UTC 2009


I have to agree with Santosh here.

The really scary part is that the "serious leadership vacuum" seems to  
have migrated from the old board and old ED to the new board and new ED.

I'm really perplexed how that might even be possible given how many  
people (including myself) were exchanged in the process.


On Jul 29, 2009, at 20:44, Santosh Rajan wrote:

>
>
> First of all I am not proposing anything, nor am i complaining about
> anything. I am just bringing to your notice what I think is a very  
> serious
> problem with the OpenID board.
> And yes let us face it. There definitely is a serious leadership  
> vacuum
> here. I am sure every one is aware of it but nobody speaks about it.
>
> As you said Don is an infrastructure guy, but why bring Don into  
> this at
> all. I dont think he was hired for a leadership role at all. The  
> leader has
> to be the chairman of the board. The chairman must be a technical  
> wiz plus
> someone who can lead from the front, and should be rallying the  
> community.
>
> I cant see someone who is good at both here, technology and rallying  
> the
> flock.
> Actually I dont mind one of the corporate members being chairman of  
> the
> board provided he has a written mandate from his company to work as he
> wishes independently on a board like this. Something like the  
> mandate given
> to Eran from Yahoo.
>
>
> Chris Messina wrote:
>>
>> Santosh, I'm not sure what you're proposing.
>> If there is a leadership vacuum in the community, complaining about  
>> it
>> doesn't seem like an effective way to address it.
>>
>> That said, I certainly think that the Foundation via the board has  
>> not
>> been
>> terribly effective in its communications and outreach since the  
>> elections.
>> That said, much has been happening, albeit in many different places  
>> so
>> keeping track of everything is very challenging — even for those  
>> directly
>> working on these things.
>>
>> A couple weeks back I sent Don a list of interview-style questions  
>> that I
>> had hoped would have made it to the blog by now, but alas I've not  
>> heard
>> back from him yet. Don has pointed out that he is more of an
>> infrastructure
>> kind of guy — who likes to operate behind the scenes, and so  
>> combining
>> that
>> style of leadership with an otherwise quiet board can of course  
>> lead to
>> questions of progress.
>>
>> I also noticed that the board's meeting minutes have not been  
>> published to
>> the wiki recently, so I'll go an make sure that they are copied  
>> from this
>> list to the wiki, so at least you can trace the conversations that  
>> have
>> gone
>> on over the last several months.
>>
>> I would be interested in hearing solid proposals for rallying the
>> community
>> — and coordinating efforts if the board is unable or unavailable to  
>> do so.
>> I
>> have ideas myself, but not the time or ability to implement them at  
>> the
>> moment.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:30 PM, Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Allen I think you missed a major point here.
>>> It is nice to know about Yahoo's work. Other coorporates have also  
>>> done a
>>> lot of work, like Google, Facebook etc.
>>>
>>> But what about the independent community members? Nothing!! Or  
>>> atleast I
>>> haven't seen any work coming from then.
>>>
>>> I think in Open Communities the most important contributions must  
>>> come
>>> from
>>> the independant members and not the coorporate members. Independent
>>> members
>>> are not "boxed in" by coorporate objectives.
>>>
>>> Corporate members are focussed by their companies. Independent
>>> individuals
>>> need community leadership, otherwise they will end up running  
>>> around like
>>> headless chicken. Which is more or less what is happenning now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Allen Tom-2 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Yahoo is very heavily invested in OpenID and we have a bunch of
>>>> engineers and designers currently working on enhancements to our  
>>>> OpenID
>>>> service.  Earlier this year, we worked with the community to  
>>>> write the
>>>> OpenID UI and OAuth/Hybrid Extensions, and the Yahoo OP will be
>>>> implementing both of these extensions in the very near future.
>>>>
>>>> In addition to protocol enhancements, we have a crack team of
>>> UI/Product
>>>> designers and researchers who are actively experimenting with  
>>>> ways to
>>>> improve the overall usability of our OpenID service. We'll be  
>>>> deploying
>>>> many significant upgrades to the Yahoo OpenID Provider's user  
>>>> interface
>>>> later this year. The new OpenID UI, along with support for the UI  
>>>> and
>>>> Hybrid Extensions, and our soon to be released support for Open
>>> Social's
>>>> REST based APIs (including Portable Contacts) will be a huge  
>>>> upgrade to
>>>> our existing Open Stack offering.
>>>>
>>>> We've also been working behind the scenes to line up several new  
>>>> and
>>>> exciting Relying Parties to accept OpenID. Every potential Relying
>>> Party
>>>> that I've been working with wants to accept not just Yahoo  
>>>> OpenID, but
>>>> also OpenIDs from other Providers, which is making a really  
>>>> strong case
>>>> for interoperability and open standards.
>>>>
>>>> Yahoo along with other OPs and Relying Parties are committing  
>>>> plenty of
>>>> resources for OpenID  and are actively working towards the goal of
>>>> having OpenID reach widespread usage and adoption.  Many of these
>>>> efforts are behind the scenes, and aren't really visible on the  
>>>> public
>>>> mailing lists, so perhaps the OpenID Foundation can take the lead  
>>>> in
>>>> publicizing the activities that its membership is actively  
>>>> working on.
>>>>
>>>> Allen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nat wrote:
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> Inline below:
>>>>>
>>>>> =nat at Tokyo via iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2009/07/30, at 2:22, David Recordon <david at sixapart.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Forwarding these three posts from the General list.  Not  
>>>>>> because I
>>>>>> agree with all of the sentiments expressed, but because it  
>>>>>> shows how
>>>>>> we as a board and organization are clearly not being transparent
>>>>>> enough in the activities that are actually being taken on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Two ideas I think that we should seriously consider are:
>>>>>> 1) making use of a project management tool like Basecamp
>>>>>> (http://www.basecamphq.com/) so that at least the entire board  
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Don know the status of each project that is underway
>>>>>
>>>>> I strongly agree to this.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) having Don write a monthly blog post about OpenID's  
>>>>>> achievements
>>>>>> the past month and what the Foundation has accomplished
>>>>>
>>>>> +1
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --David
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Santosh Rajan <santrajan at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Date: July 28, 2009 11:11:03 PM PDT
>>>>>>> To: general at openid.net
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [OpenID] Google's proprietary discovery extension?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hehe! Shade for once I am going to agree with you.
>>>>>>> Why do we have a chairman? Isnt he supposed to be leading the  
>>>>>>> flock
>>> and
>>>>>>> showing the way?
>>>>>>> And what about the rest of the board. This is the "coldest"  
>>>>>>> board I
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> ever seen.
>>>>>>> I think Eran Hammer should have been the chairman of the  
>>>>>>> board! I
>>>>>>> wonder why
>>>>>>> he disappeared from here 2 yrs back. (I have seen some posts  
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> him from
>>>>>>> 2007).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SitG Admin wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is no sign of the "STD mechanism" coming soon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Perhaps it will arrive after Chris Messina's "Policy Expression
>>>>>>>> Extension" passes ;)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apathy on the part of the OpenID Foundation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Inaction, or so it may appear; timely, though?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Half the Identity folk have moved on to Kantara Initiative.
>>>>>>>>> The Other half to the Open Web foundation.
>>>>>>>>> XRI TC has tied itself in knots.
>>>>>>>>> And the hilarious part is that there are folk involved in all
>>>>>>>>> these three
>>>>>>>>> foundations!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sounds like good separation of duties to me. If the rest of  
>>>>>>>> us can
>>>>>>>> still interop (and work is still being done that *needs* to  
>>>>>>>> be done
>>>>>>>> before we can move forward), it doesn't really matter where  
>>>>>>>> most of
>>>>>>>> the various communities is doing that work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No idea were the rest of us should bail out to!?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the development of OpenID were to halt now, I think it  
>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>> Federated implementations that found themselves hardest hit;  
>>>>>>>> small,
>>>>>>>> independent operators such as myself (working with libraries
>>> already
>>>>>>>> distributed "in the wild") might not even notice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Shade
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> general mailing list
>>>>>>>> general at openid.net
>>>>>>>> http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Santosh Rajan
>>>>>>> http://santrajan.blogspot.com http://santrajan.blogspot.com
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>>>>
>>> http://www.nabble.com/Re%3A-Google%27s-proprietary-discovery-extension--tp24414092p24713025.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from the OpenID - General mailing list archive at  
>>>>>>> Nabble.com.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> general mailing list
>>>>>>> general at openid.net
>>>>>>> http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/general
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> board mailing list
>>>>>> board at openid.net
>>>>>> http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/board
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> board mailing list
>>>>> board at openid.net
>>>>> http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/board
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> board mailing list
>>>> board at openid.net
>>>> http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/board
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>>
>>> Santosh Rajan
>>> http://santrajan.blogspot.com http://santrajan.blogspot.com
>>> --
>>> View this message in context:
>>> http://www.nabble.com/Perception-of-the-Foundation-%28Was%3A-Fwd%3A--OpenID--Google%27s-proprietary-discovery-extension-%29-tp24724040p24730408.html
>>> Sent from the OpenID - Foundation Board mailing list archive at
>>> Nabble.com.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> board mailing list
>>> board at openid.net
>>> http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/board
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Chris Messina
>> Open Web Advocate
>>
>> Personal site: http://factoryjoe.com
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/chrismessina
>>
>> Diso Project: http://diso-project.org
>> OpenID Foundation: http://openid.net
>>
>> This email is:   [ ] bloggable    [X] ask first   [ ] private
>>
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>> http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/board
>>
>>
>
>
> -----
>
> Santosh Rajan
> http://santrajan.blogspot.com http://santrajan.blogspot.com
> -- 
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Perception-of-the-Foundation-%28Was%3A-Fwd%3A--OpenID--Google%27s-proprietary-discovery-extension-%29-tp24724040p24731706.html
> Sent from the OpenID - Foundation Board mailing list archive at  
> Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> board mailing list
> board at openid.net
> http://openid.net/mailman/listinfo/board




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