[OpenID board] Trademarks: Problems with derivative Marks
Bill Washburn
bill at oidf.org
Wed Mar 12 15:28:15 UTC 2008
Good question, Snorri.
What do you mean Mark by derivative marks?
-bill
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 8:21 AM, Snorri Giorgetti <
snorri.giorgetti at gmail.com> wrote:
> What do you mean by "derivative"?
>
>
>
> I think you confuse the specifications (2.0,…) with the (TM) Policies
>
> (this already happened to me to make this mistake! :)
>
>
>
> -Snorri
>
>
>
> *De :* Mark Cross [mailto:2008 at thirdvisit.co.uk]
> *Envoyé :* mercredi 12 mars 2008 15:10
>
> *À :* Snorri Giorgetti
> *Cc :* Bill Washburn; board at openid.net
> *Objet :* Re: Trademarks: Problems with derivative Marks
>
>
>
> But I confirm what I have already said: "I/we have no views or plans about
> the "derivative" TM"
>
>
> Snorri / OIDF,
>
> ah, so what are you going to do if someone registers one?
>
> Cheers Mark
>
>
>
> On 12/03/2008, *Snorri Giorgetti* <snorri.giorgetti at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Mark,
>
>
>
> I speak for OIDE, and it does not therefore the responsibility of OIDF
>
> But I confirm what I have already said: "I/we have no views or plans about
> the "derivative" TM"
>
>
>
> I strongly recommend you to find another "Business Model" as this concept
> of TM licensed!
>
>
>
> I'm at your disposal to help you in UK and find better solutions for all…
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> -Snorri
>
>
>
> *De :* Mark Cross [mailto:2008 at thirdvisit.co.uk]
> *Envoyé :* mercredi 12 mars 2008 14:28
> *À :* Snorri Giorgetti
> *Cc :* Bill Washburn; board at openid.net
>
>
> *Objet :* Re: Trademarks: Problems with derivative Marks
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12/03/2008, *Snorri Giorgetti* <snorri.giorgetti at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Mark,
>
>
>
> I'm very surprised by your affirmation with my name because, personally, I
> have never had any projects related to the "Certification" and TM.
>
>
> Sorry there Snorri. I thought Certification was part of the OIDF roadmap
> from seeing that.
>
>
>
> The only PDF document online with the word "Certification" is here
> http://www.openidsource.org/OpenID%20Source.JPG
>
> But I wrote it in June 2007, and it is no longer relevant! (but as a wiki,
> I leave it online) And it was a thoughts about the trust reputation between
> an OP and an RP to avoid phishing
>
> But I advise instead to read the draft of the Nat's team here:
> http://myidproject.net/?OpenIDReputationService
>
>
> I am going to spend some time digesting that
>
>
>
> But no relation to the Trademark!
>
>
>
> In Europe we have a position easy about the TM:
>
> The name "OpenID™" is now protected to avoid to be used for other plans
> that the "OpenID Framework" exactly as FireFox is a browser and no a brand
> of coffee ! ;-) (why not lol)
>
> Nothing more!
>
>
>
> I have much worked in 2007 on this question of TM and sorry but I'm
> currently very tired to talk still about this,
>
> Now I would use my time on others important projects… (as local chapters
> and convince large RPs)
>
>
>
> Concretely what do you want with your OpenID UK TM? = The Money ? :)
>
>
> I have no idea at momment, it would be nice, but any revenue coming from
> it has to "in the spirit" of Brad's guiding statement.
>
> I am just very nervous that things will happen that require sum financing.
> Not having the resources to sort anything out, does not help the OpenID
> Community?
>
> Do you have any views on how derivative Trademarks should be licensed?
>
> Cheers Mark
>
>
>
> "I promised to come soon visit your nice English countryside…"
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> -Snorri
>
>
>
> *De :* Mark Cross [mailto:2008 at thirdvisit.co.uk]
> *Envoyé :* mardi 11 mars 2008 23:45
> *À :* Bill Washburn
> *Cc :* board at openid.net; Snorri Giorgetti
> *Objet :* Re: Trademarks: Problems with derivative Marks
>
>
>
> Bill,
>
> I know that Snorri was keen to pursue Certification - or was at one point,
> I remember seeing a PDF on his web site, but I cannot find it now.
>
> Quite simply - how does certification occur without the generation of a
> derivative of the OpenID logo Trademark?
>
> EG This site is only "OpenID v2 compatible logo"
>
> Now the issuer of that logo has an office to run, and I believe that
> derivative logos that are trying to achieve the same thing - should look
> after universally similar across the world, as Randy's logo does. This is
> good for the Community and good for the end user.
>
> Broaching the question of "revenue for licensing" is in obvious
> contradiction to the policy of being entirely free and of course that
> precludes anything that is revenue generating including licensing fees or
> royalties
>
>
> So should no derivative Mark's should be licensed?
>
> I don't think this is practical - nor desirable for the Community.
>
> Assuming that the US OpenID Foundation considers it's actually a good idea
> to issue derivative Trademarks, because it offers the Community and Users
> great advantages eg Certification etc
>
> Then who is going to administer derivative Trademarks in each legal
> jurisdiction?
>
> Honestly, I simply can't parse well the "situation" as you describe it.
> Please just put your questions on the table directly. What are you
> asserting and what do you aim to do as a result of those assertions?
>
>
> Derivative Trademarks will be a huge factor in the uptake of OpenID in my
> opinion.
>
> so to me this feels like a question that is an attempt to somehow get the
> nose of the camel into the tent.
>
>
> :-) I guess so.
>
> Now you/the US Foundation can take the view that you still cannot
> understand where I am coming from, which is fair enough. Then I believe
> that in the next couple of months the current Trademark holders will be
> approached about derivative Marks:
>
> a) The Foundation provides direction and suggests a policy to the
> Trademark holders globally, so everybody does something similar in a
> coordinated fashion
>
> or
>
> b) We muddle along like we are doing now, which I personally think is a
> bad option
>
> I am sorry if this email comes over badly, I am just frustrated that since
> Nov 07, nothing on the Trademark front "appears" to have moved forwards and
> I see brand management of OpenID as really crucial.
>
> What are you asserting and what do you aim to do as a result of those
> assertions?
>
>
> See dialog on the Legal mailing list?
>
> All the best,
>
> Mark
>
> On 11/03/2008, *Bill Washburn* <bill at oidf.org> wrote:
>
> Mark,
>
> Thanks for your note. I have read and reread your email, specifically the
> parts about:
>
> a) "How should the revenue for licensing be distributed - if a holder
> wishes to?"
>
> and
>
> b) the "situation" and the follow-on question leave me with a sense of
> real concern.
>
> Could you please clarify? Broaching the question of "revenue for
> licensing" is in obvious contradiction to the policy of being entirely free
> and of course that precludes anything that is revenue generating including
> licensing fees or royalties, so to me this feels like a question that is an
> attempt to somehow get the nose of the camel into the tent. Or are am I
> missing something?
>
> Honestly, I simply can't parse well the "situation" as you describe it.
> Please just put your questions on the table directly. What are you
> asserting and what do you aim to do as a result of those assertions?
>
> Cordially,
> -bill
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 10:34 AM, Mark Cross <2008 at thirdvisit.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Bill,
>
> Sorry for not writing sooner, I had to attend a family funeral this week
> and have been Net less.
>
> With regards to our conversation two Fridays back my illustration is as
> follows:
>
> As a Trademark holder - by accident because I needed to protect the
> domain, I do see a lot of problems with derivative Marks.
>
> 1. The brand needs to be protected
> 2. How should the revenue for licensing be distributed - if a holder
> wishes to?
>
> *Situation:*
>
> Having got the Trademark I decided that given that absolutely no
> provincial (local) Angel Investment network understands OpenID, I might as
> well register a derivative mark to raise money through certification, to
> fund both myself and further OpenID in the UK.
>
> Whilst as I the own the Mark I have no qualms about doings this, but I do
> have an ethical dilemma that profit should be further split between, Brad,
> Randy and the OpenID Foundation US/Europe/UK.
>
> *Question:*
>
> Would the board like to offer any advice on this to me as an individual,
> and or suggest ideas that could be promoted to the other holders?
>
> Cheers Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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