<div dir="ltr">Accountability is tricky... you can't have a human in the loop for every action an agent takes (I wouldn't want to be that poor human having to approve 1000's of daily Agent actions), but indeed the organization putting an Agent online should be liable for its actions... I think that's a different matter though, prob out-of-scope for us here, isn't it?<div><br></div><div>AI Identity: Agents and Models are trained on human data. They WILL reproduce human behaviour, including lying and scheming (research already shows this behaviour), therefore issuing human-like identities makes sense. Nevertheless, informing actual humans they are communicating with an AI seems also important, therefore Agents need human-like identities that can nevertheless be distinguishable from humans. </div><div><br></div><div>For my part, I think the work done within the OID4VC group is highly relevant... Issuing VCs to agents makes complete sense: VCs check all the checkboxes of our common doc here. You can tie them back to their orgs (the issuing, end hence responsible party), establish trust between Agent creators (issuers) and in general authenticate the holder (the Agent). Once authenticated this way, agents could then still be issued regular OAuth tokens, or even transaction tokens (TRaTs) , or in general follow any existing OAuth spec... no conflict there. Coexist.<br><br>Also claims in those VCs could clearly identify the Holder as an AI entity. Pb solved.</div><div><br></div><div>[Note that VCs are not so different (conceptually) than Spiffe ID Documents: cryptographically provable identities that can be tied back to an issuer...]</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>./\.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 23, 2025 at 1:04 AM Shahar Tal via Openid-aiim <<a href="mailto:openid-aiim@lists.openid.net">openid-aiim@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)">Absolutely agree, Ayesha
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)">-</span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)"> human accountability is a key pillar in any viable model for agent identity. Whether it’s an individual owner, an organizational function,
or a subject matter expert, the essential element is that <i>someone</i> must ultimately be accountable. And as you noted, this doesn’t always mean the agent is acting
<i>on behalf of</i> that person </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)">-</span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)"> accountability and delegation are often distinct.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)">Also very glad to see more and more voices acknowledging that agentic identities deserve their own category, not just a bucket under NHIs. In many ways, agents are more human than NHIs
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)">-</span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)"> and sometimes more human than humans themselves. They replicate human intent, amplify decision-making,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)">
mistake-making,</span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)"> and introduce new risks at unprecedented speed and scale.</span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)">
</span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)">That demands a new conceptual and technical foundation, and we’re glad to
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)">take part and </span>
<span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)">see this group moving the conversation forward.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)">And a quick apology
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)">-</span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)"> we refreshed our website yesterday and the blog link was briefly unavailable. It’s fully accessible again now
<a href="https://www.cyata.ai/blog/many-faces-of-agentic-identities" target="_blank">https://www.cyata.ai/blog/many-faces-of-agentic-identities</a>. Appreciate you referencing it!</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)">Shahar<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(68,114,196)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<b><span style="color:black">From: </span></b><span style="color:black">Openid-aiim <<a href="mailto:openid-aiim-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-aiim-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>> on behalf of Ayesha Dissanayaka via Openid-aiim <<a href="mailto:openid-aiim@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-aiim@lists.openid.net</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 22 July 2025 at 18:26<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:openid-aiim@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-aiim@lists.openid.net</a> <<a href="mailto:openid-aiim@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-aiim@lists.openid.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Openid-aiim] IAM needs for Agentic AI and Path Forward<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">On Tue, Jul 22, 2025 at 10:29<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span>PM Ayesha Dissanayaka <<a href="mailto:ayshsandu@gmail.com" target="_blank">ayshsandu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">Hi everyone, Thank you for your comments and suggestions. Please keep them coming. I see that there have been some interesting discussions on the thread while I was away. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">The purpose of this brainstorming document is exactly to identify and commonly agree on what areas we should be focusing on from an identity and access management point of view when it comes to agentic AI, how
to adopt and apply existing concepts and standards, and where we need extensions or innovations. <u></u><u></u></p>
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I recently came across this nice article about <a href="https://cyata.ai/blog/many-faces-of-agentic-identities" target="_blank">many faces of agentic identities</a>, which discusses a behavioral classification of agents with real-world examples.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u><span>1.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span>Agents acting as human counterparts <u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u><span>2.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span>Agents acting on behalf of users<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u><span>3.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span>Agents acting hybrid of both above types<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">I agree that non-deterministic and completely autonomous agents add lots of complexity to the existing infrastructure, but I don't think we can stop agents getting there with the latest technological advancements,
and without having strict low enforcement for building and deploying such agents. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:36pt">
However, I do believe there needs to be a responsible party (a human/an organization or some legally bound entity) who is ultimately responsible for the agent, its actions, and side-effects. The party that the agent acts on behalf of can be different from the
party who employs the agent.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">As some of you mentioned above, agent's identity can be a choice of a service account, an application, a workload, something else, or something completely new. I don't like to ground agent identity to this or
that yet. But believe Agents should have some identity to uniquely identify the agent, credentials (s) to prove their identity, and a responsible party.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">As Eve suggested, I completely agree that we could start with agents acting upon human delegators' command, which is the most common case today. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">Also, as Jeff suggested, I'm happy to improve this brainstorming document with the community feedback and collaboration so that we have a commonly agreeable base for what problems we should be solving for agent
IAM, and what directions we should take. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">And of course, we can start a new document on agent assurance levels, which can be one of the many recommendations/guidelines that come out of AIIM-CG. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">P.S. Please don't hesitate to edit the <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PhWC4KRO00kOPUW113ldG06Vii5dZjW3ljiV1tA0GCc/edit?tab=t.0" target="_blank">document</a> with your suggestions. It's open to community text collaboration. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">On Tue, Jul 22, 2025 at 5:45<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span>PM Richard Bird via Openid-aiim <<a href="mailto:openid-aiim@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-aiim@lists.openid.net</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">Operational issues and considerations:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">1. If an agent isn’t fully autonomous, does it have agency or is it an only policy bound entity? Is partial agency, agency at all? <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">2. How long post-broad acceptance of agentic AI until “human in the loop” is an unsustainable transactional control model (several people in the industry- example Rock Lambros - believe that answer is almost
instantly. That human in the loop is fundamentally unachievable except for possibly only the highest risk transactions.)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">3. A log isn’t a control mechanism, it is a post-incident investigative tool. Logs are lagging indicators, not leading indicators. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">4. What control mechanisms can or will be used when agents begin to delegate to other agents? Authorization mechanisms have never been controlled by identity and devops have associated authorization calls with
apps and app functions - not with identities and roles - either human or agentic. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">5. An immutable record of agentic actions, delegations and changes could be created using blockchain - but even then the abberant or errant behavior of an agent would need to generate and action or trigger as
a response or mitigation to that agent’s behavior - otherwise the immutable ledger is just another tool for post event/incident research. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">6. 90 plus percent of all AI exposure is external to our organizations (and it seems that this percentage will remain well above 50% for the foreseeable future). What does key assignment, identity ascription and
identity control look like for a huge class of entities that we do not have direct control over? This issue is why most OEM software companies are assigning service accounts to their agents instead of identities. It eliminates the overhead associated with
identity management and control, completely. And it allows them to bypass T&C notification requirements for code changes (I.e. retraining)<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">Sorry for the ad hoc drive-by on this thread. Wasn't entirely sure what the best way to engage was but have found this thread very interesting. Not now nor have ever been a standards type - I’m an old grubby operator
by experience. But obviously this topic is hugely important for the future and I’ve been eyeballs deep in operationalized AI for a few years now. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">Kindest,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">Richard Bird <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">Rb<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">On Mon, Jul 21, 2025 at 11:52<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span>PM Sachin Mamoru via Openid-aiim <<a href="mailto:openid-aiim@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-aiim@lists.openid.net</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">Hi Eleanor and Tom,<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">Can't we use AI to govern the AI? I mean, one aspect of governing could be to track the Agent's behaviour through logs. Periodical scans of these logs using AI can help us understand when the Agent malfunctions
(i.e., when it does not perform the intended behaviour), and then rectify it.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">Having full autonomy in Agents will be difficult to achieve, especially since, ultimately, IAM is zero trust. In the chain of command, there should always be at least one human being to oversee this.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">Sachin.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">On Mon, 21 Jul 2025 at 10:49, Tom Jones via Openid-aiim <<a href="mailto:openid-aiim@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-aiim@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">interesting question - is there ever any reason what-so-ever for a full autonomous agent. I hope the short term answer is no.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">What is important is that a message sent from the agent must be clear.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">Let's try to start with the assumption that any message from any agent must include at least one delegation of authority if an action is to be undertaken.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:rgb(56,118,29);background:rgb(242,242,242)">Peace ..tom jones</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">On Sun, Jul 20, 2025 at 7:26<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span>PM Eleanor Meritt <<a href="mailto:ehmeritt@gmail.com" target="_blank">ehmeritt@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">At the most fundamental level we need to agree on what autonomy means for AI agents. Does that mean there is no logging of their behaviors? No monitoring? No failure handling? No intervention if “something goes
wrong”? My gut feeling is that AI agents should always be monitored by humans as - and Ayesha said it - there is no guarantee that they will behave in the same way twice for the same requests. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">Then - getting philosophical - can we agree that every AI agent should always have an ultimately responsible human owner? <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">Until we agree on fundamentals like this one, we won’t get very far on defining AIIM standards. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">Eleanor. <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt">On Sun, Jul 20, 2025 at 1:44<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span>PM Lombardo, Jeff via Openid-aiim <<a href="mailto:openid-aiim@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-aiim@lists.openid.net</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11pt">I think we can thank Ayesha for putting forward the idea of baes that can define the relation in between an human and an agent, an agent and a resource.</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11pt"> </span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11pt">There is space for improvement on this first Draft for sure, Ayesha candidly opened her text and requested feedback from this group.</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11pt"> </span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11pt">Maybe the best approach is to propose new formulation for the mental model and text description of it, with at heart to remind that this Community Group is here to expose and document the current state and what needs
to be done for the best state with whatever exist today or need to be created tomorrow.</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11pt"> </span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11pt">In this vein (pun intended), I think we should:<br>
- comment wherever needed on Ayesha document to make it more robust<br>
- start a new document on Agentic Assurance Levels</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11pt"> </span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Jean-François “<span style="color:rgb(233,113,50)">Jeff</span>” Lombardo</span></b><span lang="FR-CA"> </span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">|<span style="color:gray">
</span><span style="color:rgb(233,113,50)">Amazon Web Services</span></span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:4pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:gray"> </span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:gray">Architecte Principal de Solutions, Spécialiste de Sécurité<br>
Principal Solution Architect, Security Specialist<br>
Montréal, Canada</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Wingdings 2"">(</span><span lang="EN-CA" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:gray">
</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:gray">+1 514 778 5565</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<i><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:gray">Commentaires à propos de notre échange?
</span></i><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:gray">Exprimez-vous
</span></i><span lang="FR-CA"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/feedback.aws.amazon.com/?ea=jeffsec&fn=Jean*20Francois&ln=Lombardo__;JQ!!Pe07N362zA!0k9CkAV8Djpw_8EfIAKrbhP3TQrJr0oMnznlUgBJ3V3NoEk6hihx7dNHnQuejn6SSH2CP8Iow3G-tTzppHeg$" target="_blank"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(70,120,134)">ici</span></i></a></span><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:gray">.</span></i><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:4pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:gray"> </span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:gray">Thoughts on our interaction? Provide feedback
</span></i><span lang="FR-CA"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/feedback.aws.amazon.com/?ea=jeffsec&fn=Jean*20Francois&ln=Lombardo__;JQ!!Pe07N362zA!0k9CkAV8Djpw_8EfIAKrbhP3TQrJr0oMnznlUgBJ3V3NoEk6hihx7dNHnQuejn6SSH2CP8Iow3G-tTzppHeg$" target="_blank"><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(70,120,134)">here</span></i></a></span><i><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:gray">.</span></i><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="EN-CA" style="font-size:11pt"> </span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Openid-aiim <<a href="mailto:openid-aiim-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-aiim-bounces@lists.openid.net</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tom Jones via Openid-aiim<br>
<b>Sent:</b> July 20, 2025 10:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Eve Maler <<a href="mailto:eve@vennfactory.com" target="_blank">eve@vennfactory.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Tom Jones <<a href="mailto:thomasclinganjones@gmail.com" target="_blank">thomasclinganjones@gmail.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:peace@acm.org" target="_blank">peace@acm.org</a>; <a href="mailto:openid-aiim@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">
openid-aiim@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [EXT] [Openid-aiim] IAM needs for Agentic AI and Path Forward</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">Those ideas are completely broken.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">If an agent, on behalf of a legal person, is allowed to order and pay for goods, then a legal contract was created and satisfied.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">Anything else is not agency.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">So the question is, do we have an agent or not?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">.<a href="https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/agent" target="_blank">https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/agent</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:rgb(56,118,29);background:rgb(242,242,242)">Peace ..tom jones</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">On Sun, Jul 20, 2025 at 9:56</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span><span lang="FR-CA">AM Eve Maler <<a href="mailto:eve@vennfactory.com" target="_blank">eve@vennfactory.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">Feeling philosophical today: Is there room to square this circle?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">There’s an emerging field of relational AI (vs. transactional — behaviors vs. actions). I’ve been talking to the <a href="https://kaystoner.substack.com" target="_blank">developer</a> of a number of custom GPTs that are aligned with very
precisely drawn personas — and, yes, have also been playing with some of them. The outputs are indeed variable but the behaviors are designed to provide certain kinds of interactive support. Their design also includes some guardrails and some level of transparency.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">Maybe what needs to come first, before we can trust a high-autonomy-level transactional agent, is measurable behavioral alignment with their human delegator (Agentic Assurance Level? :-) ). Perhaps only then can we start to assess the alignment
of any actions that agent takes.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">(Human delegates are not immune to misalignment with their delegator, of course, which is why agency law and the concept of fiduciary duty exist. I doubt AI agents will win humanlike legal status any time soon, but if they are ever to get
anywhere near it, they’ll need to solve these sorts of issues.)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">Eve<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"><img border="0" width="200" height="65" style="width: 2.0833in; height: 0.677in;" id="m_-6304507829244651622_x0000_i1030" src="cid:ii_198382ee4f54cff311"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(71,100,88)">Eve Maler, president and founder</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(71,100,88)">Cell and Signal <a href="tel:+1-425-345-6756" target="_blank">+1 (425) 345-6756</a></span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">On Jul 19, 2025, at 12:33</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span><span lang="FR-CA">PM, Tom Jones via Openid-aiim <<a href="mailto:openid-aiim@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-aiim@lists.openid.net</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p style="margin-left:36pt"><span lang="FR-CA">non-deterministic agents do present serious challenges to
<strong><span style="font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">trust</span></strong>, <strong>
<span style="font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">security</span></strong>, and <strong>
<span style="font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">governance</span></strong>. In domains like digital identity, law, finance, and public infrastructure,
<strong><span style="font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">unpredictability</span></strong> isn't just inconvenient—it’s potentially
<strong><span style="font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">unacceptable</span></strong>. Let’s break down why:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<h3 style="margin-left:36pt"><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"">⚠️</span><span lang="FR-CA">
<strong><span style="font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">Why Non-Determinism Breeds Unacceptability</span></strong><u></u><u></u></span></h3>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><strong><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">Inconsistent behavior</span></strong><span lang="FR-CA">: Agents that act differently under the same conditions can’t be reliably audited
or certified.</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><strong><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">Untraceable outputs</span></strong><span lang="FR-CA">: It becomes hard to pinpoint cause, responsibility, or compliance status.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><strong><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">Vulnerability to manipulation</span></strong><span lang="FR-CA">: Adversaries can exploit probabilistic logic to induce unwanted outcomes.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol"><span>·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><strong><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">Loss of control</span></strong><span lang="FR-CA">: Especially in systems involving user consent or legal transactions, determinism enables
meaningful boundaries.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">The above is what a bing bot thinks of this idea. I agree with it.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:rgb(56,118,29);background:rgb(242,242,242)">Peace ..tom jones</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">On Sat, Jul 19, 2025 at 10:19</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span><span lang="FR-CA">AM Ayesha Dissanayaka <<a href="mailto:ayshsandu@gmail.com" target="_blank">ayshsandu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">Hi Tom, <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"><br>
Thank you for your input. Of course, defining an agent is a top priority when considering IAM. It's the very first term in the <a href="https://github.com/openid/cg-ai-identity-management/blob/main/deliverable/taxonomy.md" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">taxonomy
document</span></a> that the CG is constructing. </span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:"Apple Color Emoji"">😃</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">Major AI framework providers have their definitions for AI agents, as I tried to summarize
<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PhWC4KRO00kOPUW113ldG06Vii5dZjW3ljiV1tA0GCc/edit?tab=t.1iyru8xdjt9u" target="_blank">
here.</a>. We can draw some inspiration from them when constructing a definition for the AI agents in the context of IAM for Agents. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"><br>
On your suggestion for the agent definition, the term "consistent behavior" might not go well with an agent, as agents are, by design, undeterministic and dynamic. If you ask an agent to do the same thing twice, there is a fair chance that it will do the task
differently, unlike a traditional application or a workload. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">On Sat, Jul 19, 2025 at 12:19</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span><span lang="FR-CA">AM Tom Jones <<a href="mailto:thomasclinganjones@gmail.com" target="_blank">thomasclinganjones@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">you talk about giving ai agents and id, but there appears to be no definition of what an agent must be to deserve an ID.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">Let's do that - how about this.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Roboto;color:rgb(68,71,70);letter-spacing:0.15pt">An agent is a persistent collection of software and language models together in a workload with a consistent behavior (identity) for the duration of the validity
of an assigned Identifier.<br>
An agent can be delegated authority by Entities, that is by named objects.</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:rgb(56,118,29);background:rgb(242,242,242)">Peace ..tom jones</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">On Fri, Jul 18, 2025 at 10:49</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span><span lang="FR-CA">AM Ayesha Dissanayaka via Openid-aiim <<a href="mailto:openid-aiim@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-aiim@lists.openid.net</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">Hi All, <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"><br>
Thanks, everyone, for your comments on the thoughts on the doc. And I had a great time discussing this during the CG meeting yesterday. Following up on our <a href="https://github.com/openid/cg-ai-identity-management/wiki/20250717-%E2%80%90-Meeting-notes:-July-17,-2025#ayeshas-agent-identity-discussion-iam-need-for-agentic-ai---brainstorming" target="_blank">discussion
i</a>n the last CG meeting, I am moving this conversation to email so that it's easier to comment and gather thoughts from everyone. Please refer to <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PhWC4KRO00kOPUW113ldG06Vii5dZjW3ljiV1tA0GCc/edit?tab=t.0" target="_blank">this</a><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PhWC4KRO00kOPUW113ldG06Vii5dZjW3ljiV1tA0GCc/edit?tab=t.0" target="_blank">
documen</a>t for detailed information. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">The complexity of AI-native applications, when considering GenAI, has progressed in added stages of complexity :</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>1.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Task-Specific AI:</span></b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">
Simple applications using LLMs for specific tasks like text generation.</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>2.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">RAG-Enabled AI:</span></b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">
Applications that can access and synthesize external knowledge bases.</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>3.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Apps that include Agents:</span></b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">
Applications where agents can make decisions and execute tasks on a user's behalf.</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>4.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Agent Teammates:</span></b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">
The current frontier, where agents act on their own accord and collaborate with humans in shared workflows.</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">This evolution presents exciting opportunities, but it also brings a new set of challenges, particularly in how we manage identity and access. To ensure we build a secure
and trustworthy ecosystem for these agents, we need to establish a robust set of IAM best practices.</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Here are some of the key requirements that we should be thinking about:</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Seamless Integration:</span></b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">
Agents need to interact with existing systems, like those using OAuth, with minimal disruption.</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Flexible Action:</span></b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">
Agents should be able to act on their own or securely on behalf of a user or another entity.</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Just-in-Time Permissions:</span></b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">
To mitigate risks from the non-deterministic nature of agents, we need mechanisms for granting just-enough access, precisely when it's needed.</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Clear Accountability:</span></b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">
There must be a designated responsible party for an agent's actions.</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Auditable Traceability:</span></b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">
All agent actions should be traceable back to their identity and the delegating authority.</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Agent-Specific Controls:</span></b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">
Resource servers may need to identify and apply specific controls for actions initiated by agents.</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>·<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Lifecycle Management:</span></b><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">
We need clear governance for the entire lifecycle of an agent, from onboarding to decommissioning.</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:14pt;margin-left:36pt">
<span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">This is a pivotal moment for us to lead the way in defining the standards and best practices that will shape the future of agentic AI. To get the ball rolling, let's consider
a few key questions:</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>1.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Where can we apply
<b>existing standards and best practices</b>?</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>2.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">What are the
<b>novel problems</b> that existing solutions can't address?</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>3.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Where do we need to
<b>extend current standards or innovate</b>?</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>4.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">How should an
<b>agent's identity</b> be defined and structured?</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>5.<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Develop a shared vocabulary for scenarios, actors, and challenges.</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:rgb(26,28,30)"><span>o<span style="font:7pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><u></u><span dir="LTR"></span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Happening at
<a href="https://github.com/openid/cg-ai-identity-management/blob/main/deliverable/taxonomy.md" target="_blank">
https://github.com/openid/cg-ai-identity-management/blob/main/deliverable/taxonomy.md</a> as initiated at AIIM-CG</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="color:rgb(26,28,30)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Please share your thoughts, any references, and any ideas you might have on the above.</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(26,28,30)">Looking forward to continuing the discussion.</span><span lang="FR-CA"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">On Wed, Jul 9, 2025 at 10:04</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span><span lang="FR-CA">PM Ayesha Dissanayaka <<a href="mailto:ayshsandu@gmail.com" target="_blank">ayshsandu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">Thanks, Alex, for the comments. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">On Mon, Jul 7, 2025 at 8:41</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span><span lang="FR-CA">PM Alex Babeanu <<a href="mailto:alex.babeanu@indykite.com" target="_blank">alex.babeanu@indykite.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">Added some comments to the doc, thanks for sharing Ayesha. This could serve as a starting point for discussion...
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">A side question, could we use a common share drive to such docs or material ?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">Sure, if the CG has such a shared space, I can move the doc there. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"><a href="mailto:atul@sgnl.ai" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,76,140)">Athul</span></a>, do we have any such for the AIIM CG?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">./\.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">On Thu, Jul 3, 2025 at 10:56</span><span lang="FR-CA" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span><span lang="FR-CA">AM Ayesha Dissanayaka <<a href="mailto:ayshsandu@gmail.com" target="_blank">ayshsandu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">Hi All, <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">It's great to be part of this exciting community to discuss IAM for the Agentic Era. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">Bubbling up a discussion in the Slack channel, I'm sharing this analysis on emerging
<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PhWC4KRO00kOPUW113ldG06Vii5dZjW3ljiV1tA0GCc/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.secnaj745bir" target="_blank">
IAM challenges from Agentic AI</a> systems that now function as autonomous workforce members, and how we can approach addressing them.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36pt"><span lang="FR-CA">I'd love to hear working groups' thoughts on this, and collaborate to extend this work to commonly identify the IAM problems we need to be solving for agentic AI systems and how.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36pt"><span lang="FR-CA">I'm happy to discuss these findings at an upcoming meeting. Till then, let's collaborate on the mailing list and in the
<a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PhWC4KRO00kOPUW113ldG06Vii5dZjW3ljiV1tA0GCc/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.secnaj745bir" target="_blank">
doc</a> itself.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36pt"><span lang="FR-CA">Cheers!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:36pt"><span lang="FR-CA">- Ayesha<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">-- <br>
Openid-aiim mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Openid-aiim@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">Openid-aiim@lists.openid.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-aiim" target="_blank">https://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-aiim</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"><br clear="all">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">-- <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><img border="0" width="71" height="129" style="width: 0.7395in; height: 1.3437in;" id="m_-6304507829244651622m_-9150848258727478554m_265663060353256450m_5501519320488176161m_-3714394023806664077m_1570458074276552734m_5817149226882384460_x005f_x0000_i1025" src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/t9ujvLE5ixncgTZdMRypM3BVdboAHbvIP0ENG6TwOqyegNnox4CtJXTNCyp7v7u3N-D6hxkZFn_N2GAttGtVtIAJkg7k7kp4K4GJGFH4WjlSfRyE0jXPP9MW1NXgMDVlPV4iZJjt"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<td valign="top" style="padding:24pt 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><br>
Alex Babeanu</span></b><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif">Lead Product Manager, AI Control Suite</span><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:rgb(76,76,76)"><br>
t. +1 604 728 8130<br>
e. <a href="mailto:alex.babeanu@indykite.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">alex.babeanu@indykite.com</span></a> <br>
w. <a href="http://www.indykite.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">www.indykite.com</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<span lang="FR-CA">-- <br>
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<span lang="FR-CA"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><span>--
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<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="65" style="width: 0.677in;" id="m_-6304507829244651622_x0000_i1028" src="https://d36urhup7zbd7q.cloudfront.net/29e6c216-f94e-4bc3-8205-f3ea762db0d5/profile.format_png.resize_200x.jpeg"><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:1pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(100,100,100)">Sachin Mamoru
</span></b><br>
<b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(100,100,100)">Senior Software Engineer, WSO2</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:10.5pt"><b><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(33,33,33)">|
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:10.5pt"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><a href="https://sachinmamoru.me" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33)">sachinmamoru.me </span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:10.5pt"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><a href="mailto:sachinmamoru@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33)">sachinmamoru@gmail.com </span></a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/sachin-mamoru/" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"><span style="color:blue"><img border="0" width="25" height="25" style="width: 0.2604in; height: 0.2604in;" id="m_-6304507829244651622_x0000_i1027" src="https://cdn.gifo.wisestamp.com/s/ld/0077b5/50/0/background.png"></span></span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><a href="https://twitter.com/MamoruSachin" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"><span style="color:blue"><img border="0" width="25" height="25" style="width: 0.2604in; height: 0.2604in;" id="m_-6304507829244651622_x0000_i1026" src="https://cdn.gifo.wisestamp.com/s/tw/55acee/50/0/background.png"></span></span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36pt"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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</blockquote></div><div><br clear="all"></div><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><table width="600" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" style="font-size:13px;color:rgb(0,0,0);padding:32px 0px;font-family:-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji","Segoe UI Symbol""><tbody><tr><td width="44" style="vertical-align:top;padding:0px 16px"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/t9ujvLE5ixncgTZdMRypM3BVdboAHbvIP0ENG6TwOqyegNnox4CtJXTNCyp7v7u3N-D6hxkZFn_N2GAttGtVtIAJkg7k7kp4K4GJGFH4WjlSfRyE0jXPP9MW1NXgMDVlPV4iZJjt" width="71" height="129" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 14.6667px; margin-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px;"><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14.6667px"></span><br></td><td width="16" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(212,212,212)"></td><td style="vertical-align:top"><span style="display:block;padding-top:10px;line-height:0px;font-size:15px;font-weight:bold"><br></span><span style="display:block;padding-top:10px;line-height:0px;font-size:15px;font-weight:bold">Alex Babeanu</span><span style="display:block;padding-top:10px;line-height:0px;font-size:15px"><br></span><span style="display:block;padding-top:10px;line-height:0px">Lead Product Manager, AI Control Suite</span><span style="display:block;padding-top:10px;line-height:0px;font-size:15px"><br></span><span style="margin-bottom:16px;color:rgb(76,76,76)"><font style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit"><br>t. +1 604 728 8130</font></font><br><font style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit">e. </font></font><a href="mailto:alex.babeanu@indykite.com" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank"><font style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit">alex.babeanu@indykite.com</font></font></a> <br><font style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit">w. </font></font><a href="http://www.indykite.com/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank"><font style="vertical-align:inherit"><font style="vertical-align:inherit">www.indykite.com</font></font></a></span></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div>