Identifier for group of individulas

Allen Tom atom at yahoo-inc.com
Thu May 14 04:10:48 UTC 2009


The intent of the fragment was to allow OPs to recycle OpenIDs, and the 
fragment is intended to be a "generation identifier" that RPs can use to 
determine that the OpenID was recycled.

Allen


Andrew Arnott wrote:
> From the spec 
> <http://openid.net/specs/openid-authentication-2_0.html#identifying>:
>
>
>       11.5.1.  Identifier Recycling
>
> OpenID Providers with large user bases can use fragments to recycle 
> URL Identifiers if it is so desired. When * reassigning *a URL 
> Identifier to a */new /end user *OPs should generate a new, unique 
> fragment part.
>
> The full URL with the fragment part constitutes the Claimed Identifier 
> in positive assertions, therefore Relying Parties will distinguish 
> between *the current and /previous /owners *of the fragment-less URL.
>
> This mechanism allows the (presumably short, memorable) recycled URL 
> Identifiers without the fragment to be used by end users at login time 
> and by Relying Parties for display purposes.
>
> This smells hugely of the idea that only one user controls an 
> identifier at a time.
>
> --
> Andrew Arnott
> "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the 
> death your right to say it." - Voltaire
>
>
> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:27 AM, Nat Sakimura <sakimura at gmail.com 
> <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     My interpretation is that the fragment does not necessarily mean a new
>     user, but it just differentiate among different users.
>
>     =nat
>
>     On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 2:15 AM, Andrew Arnott
>     <andrewarnott at gmail.com <mailto:andrewarnott at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     > Fragments are valid URI parts.  But they are unique in that a
>     web browser
>     > never sends them to the server.  The OpenID 2.0 spec
>     specifically calls out
>     > fragments as valid ways that OPs can indicate to RPs that a new user
>     > controls this identifier.
>     >
>     > So in fact that may be a problem.  Multiple users could be
>     asserting control
>     > of the identifier (minus the fragment).  The OpenID 2.0 spec at
>     least hints
>     > that OPs will use this generational #fragment to indicate a new user
>     > controls the identifier (identifier recycling).  An RP that sees
>     a new
>     > fragment attached to a claimed_id may assume (perhaps rightly)
>     that the old
>     > user is now gone and delete settings for the old user.  If the
>     OP habitually
>     > sticks on random goo to the end of an identifier via its
>     #fragment, then
>     > that interpretation by the RP would not be safe.
>     >
>     > I don't know if others read the spec that way though.
>     > --
>     > Andrew Arnott
>     > "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to
>     the death
>     > your right to say it." - Voltaire
>     >
>     >
>     > On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Santosh Rajan
>     <santrajan at gmail.com <mailto:santrajan at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     >>
>     >> I am not sure about fragments. I dont think the fragment falls
>     under the
>     >> deifinition of URI. see rfc 3986.
>     >> The group can be indentified within the path part, assuming all
>     members of
>     >> the group belong to the same OP and the group is known while
>     issuing the
>     >> OpenID. In that case we dont need anything to define at the
>     OpenID level.
>     >> Or am i missing something here?
>     >>
>     >> Andrew Arnott wrote:
>     >> >
>     >> > Appending a fragment at least will help the RP distinguish
>     between
>     >> > identifiers. And in the short term it has the merit of not
>     requiring any
>     >> > spec changes.
>     >> >
>     >> > But I still would like to see a group membership claim kept
>     separate
>     >> > from
>     >> > the identity claim, perhaps via the claim discovery I
>     described in the
>     >> > other
>     >> > thread.
>     >> > --
>     >> > Andrew Arnott
>     >> > "I [may] not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend
>     to the
>     >> > death
>     >> > your right to say it." - Voltaire
>     >> >
>     >> >
>     >> > On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Nat Sakimura
>     <sakimura at gmail.com <mailto:sakimura at gmail.com>>
>     >> > wrote:
>     >> >
>     >> >> My previous post on pseudonymous identifier seemed to have
>     kicked off
>     >> >> interesting but orthogonal discussion of identifier for group of
>     >> >> individuals (like school class, friends, etc.)
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Please use this thread instead for this discussion.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Just to put an context to the discussion, I can put one deployed
>     >> >> example of this type of identifier use.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> mixi, the largest Japanese SNS, is using the concept of "group
>     >> >> identifier."
>     >> >>
>     >> >> For example, to prove you are a friend of mine, you can
>     authenticate
>     >> >> with the identifier
>     >> >>
>     >> >> https://id.mixi.jp/nat/friend
>     >> >>
>     >> >> The verified identifier would be something like
>     >> >> https://id.mixi.jp/nat/friend#hashOfYourId etc.,
>     >> >> if I rememer right.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> As you can see, it requires no change in the OpenID AuthN
>     2.0 nor an
>     >> >> extension.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> Anyways.. my 2c.
>     >> >>
>     >> >> =nat
>     >> >>
>     >> >> --
>     >> >> Nat Sakimura (=nat)
>     >> >> http://www.sakimura.org/en/
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>     >> >>
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>     >>
>     >>
>     >> -----
>     >>
>     >> Santosh Rajan
>     >> http://santrajan.blogspot.com http://santrajan.blogspot.com
>     >> --
>     >> View this message in context:
>     >>
>     http://www.nabble.com/Identifier-for-group-of-individulas-tp23525446p23526064.html
>     >> Sent from the OpenID - Specs mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>     >>
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>
>
>     --
>     Nat Sakimura (=nat)
>     http://www.sakimura.org/en/
>
>
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