Yahoo available AX attrs
Paul Madsen
paulmadsen at rogers.com
Tue Dec 8 18:00:05 UTC 2009
Is the plan to ensure that whatever mechanism is defined to express
'verified' for an email address will be applicable for other attributes,
e.g. birth date etc
Paul
Brian Kissel wrote:
> +1. As Allen has said before, and many RPs have confirmed, a verified email address with the attributes he's recommending allow RPs to remove a very problematic step in their workflow where the user has to get an email from the RP then click on it to "verify" the address before enabling an account. There are non-trivial registration losses in this workflow when those verification emails go to spam folders or users just forget to click the link. Delivering a verified email let's RPs register a user in real time eliminating this step in the workflow. This gets higher registrations and instantaneous access and gratification to the user.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brian
> ___________
>
> Brian Kissel
> CEO, JanRain - WebID and Social Publishing for User Engagement
> Email: bkissel at janrain.com Cell: 503.866.4424 Fax: 503.296.5502
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: openid-specs-bounces at lists.openid.net [mailto:openid-specs-bounces at lists.openid.net] On Behalf Of Joseph A Holsten
> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:57 AM
> To: Allen Tom
> Cc: openid-specs at lists.openid.net
> Subject: Re: Yahoo available AX attrs
>
> I understand the desire to say that the email is verified, but it
> strikes me as a bit like the urgent priority field in email. "No email
> provided" vs "This is the user's email" vs "This is Really the User's
> Email and I Mean It". Unless it means "This is the user's email, I've
> done due diligence, and you can hold me legally liable." Everything
> else boils down to understanding what the OP means when they make an
> assertion.
>
> If you really want a verified flag/timestamp/zero-knowledge-proof,
> perhaps you have a better idea about the interaction flow when things
> aren't verified to 100% certainty. Would the OP require the user to
> verify their email before allowing them to authenticate? Leave it up
> to the RP to verify? What if the OP says they're certain but the RP
> doesn't actually trust them? What happens when the OP says they've
> verified, but not 100% certain? Do you expect different RPs to make
> different decisions in these circumstances? How would they choose?
>
> I'm assuming we're not talking about RPs that have a significant
> legal / medical / financial interest in accurate assertions, because
> that's legal liability / consent / know your customer and you'll need
> more than a timestamp+i-mean-it for that.
> --
> j
>
> On Dec 7, 2009, at 10:36 PM, Allen Tom wrote:
>
>
>> I'd recommend using a timestamp indicating when it was last
>> verified, with a special value to indicate that the OP is also the
>> email provider and has 100% certainty. (perhaps just setting the
>> verification time==now is sufficient)
>>
>> Allen
>>
>>
>> On 12/7/09 8:29 PM, "Chris Messina" <chris.messina at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Sounds like something to add to PoCo... perhaps something as simple
>>> as a "verified" boolean added to email addresses?
>>>
>>> http://portablecontacts.net/draft-schema.html#anchor4
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Brian Kissel <bkissel at janrain.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> +1 on email address metadata, many RPs definitely want this.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>> ___________
>>>>
>>>> Brian Kissel
>>>> CEO, JanRain - WebID and Social Publishing for User Engagement
>>>> Email: bkissel at janrain.com Cell: 503.866.4424 Fax:
>>>> 503.296.5502
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: openid-specs-bounces at lists.openid.net [mailto:openid-specs-bounces at lists.openid.net
>>>> ] On Behalf Of Allen Tom
>>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 7:46 PM
>>>> To: Peter Watkins; Chris Obdam; openid-specs at lists.openid.net
>>>> Subject: Re: Yahoo available AX attrs
>>>>
>>>> Oops - I clicked send too early.
>>>>
>>>> The bad UX with AX is the security warning that most browsers
>>>> display when
>>>> POSTing a form from HTTPS to HTTP, which is the case when the
>>>> Yahoo OP
>>>> returns a lot of attributes. AX attribute names are excessively
>>>> long, so
>>>> it's very likely that using different attribute names for first/
>>>> last/middle
>>>> name will cause the response to be returned via POST. (2KB is the
>>>> cutoff
>>>> point)
>>>>
>>>> With regards to email address - unless we're 100% sure about the
>>>> email
>>>> address, we'd like to return metadata about the email address.
>>>> Specifically,
>>>> we'd like to indicate whether or not the email address was
>>>> verified, and if
>>>> so, when it was verified. This is definitely something that we'd
>>>> like to get
>>>> in to AX 2.0.
>>>>
>>>> Allen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/7/09 7:39 PM, "Allen Tom" <atom at yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> It definitely makes sense to use different attributes for
>>>>>
>>>> givennanme/surname
>>>>
>>>>> so that RPs don't have to parse the string, and a few other RPs
>>>>>
>>>> have also
>>>>
>>>>> asked for it. Our initial goal for our AX implementation was
>>>>>
>>>> just to match
>>>>
>>>>> SREG, and SREG only has a single openid.sreg.fullname attribute.
>>>>>
>>>>> We'll add support for separate first/last/middle/suffix
>>>>>
>>>> attributes in a
>>>>
>>>>> followup release - probably early next year. I do hope that
>>>>>
>>>> we're able to
>>>>
>>>>> standardize the attribute names, and also keep them short and
>>>>>
>>>> compact. If you
>>>>
>>>>> ask for all our supported attributes, the response will exceed
>>>>>
>>>> 2KB, which
>>>>
>>>>> requires that the response is returned via POST, causing a
>>>>>
>>>> really bad UX.
>>>>
>>>>> With regards to email address - we'd like to be able to return
>>>>>
>>>> metadata about
>>>>
>>>>> the email address w
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/7/09 7:25 AM, "Peter Watkins" <peterw at tux.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 09:16:46AM +0100, Chris Obdam wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris (Obdam) - which additional attributes would you like
>>>>>>>>
>>>> to see
>>>>
>>>>>>>> available? The attributes that we'll be adding early next
>>>>>>>>
>>>> year will include
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yahoo Profile URL and account creation date. A bunch of
>>>>>>>>
>>>> people have asked
>>>>
>>>>>>>> for Flickr Photos URL and Upcoming Profile URL, so we'll
>>>>>>>>
>>>> probably get
>>>>
>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>> to adding those too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would like to access every attr specified in de AXschema? :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my Yahoo profile i have provided my address (home and
>>>>>>>
>>>> work). I would like
>>>>
>>>>>>> to use those in a sign form somewhere else.
>>>>>>> Same goes for my phone numbers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> So would I. One of the simpler goals of our Single Sign On is
>>>>>>
>>>> prepopulating
>>>>
>>>>>> form fields; having postal address and phone number would be a
>>>>>>
>>>> help.
>>>>
>>>>>> I'd also like to see First and Last names available as separate
>>>>>>
>>>> attributes,
>>>>
>>>>>> otherwise we're trying to intelligently split both "Mary Jane
>>>>>>
>>>> Parker" and
>>>>
>>>>>> "Malcom Mac Murray".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also I would prefer that you give us the user's *primary* email
>>>>>>
>>>> address. In
>>>>
>>>>>> my Yahoo profile, my Yahoo email address is flagged as "Share
>>>>>>
>>>> with no one"
>>>>
>>>>>> and I have a different email address flagged as primary, but
>>>>>>
>>>> your AX sends
>>>>
>>>>>> my yahoo email address. That's bad from usability in part
>>>>>>
>>>> because I very,
>>>>
>>>>>> very seldom check my Yahoo email inbox.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Yahoo website attribute would also be nice to have; as we
>>>>>>
>>>> start
>>>>
>>>>>> building more "social" features on our sites, it would be nice
>>>>>>
>>>> to make
>>>>
>>>>>> it easier for our users to share links to their primary web
>>>>>>
>>>> presences,
>>>>
>>>>>> although I can understand if Yahoo management prefers to only
>>>>>>
>>>> expose the
>>>>
>>>>>> Profile URL for business reasons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>
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