PROPOSAL schema.openid.net for AX (and other extensions)

Dick Hardt dick at sxip.com
Fri Apr 6 20:07:10 UTC 2007


If there was something out there already, I would propose we used it.  
There is not.

Just like the SAML crowd has accused the OpenID crowd of reinventing  
an identity protocol (AKA reinventing the wheel) -- the AX proposal  
has some unique concepts that people like Paul and Mark think are  
quite innovative. Other schemas don't support them.

I have cc'ed Paul and Mark in case they can point to some new work  
that we can take advantage of today.

Other responses inserted:

On 6-Apr-07, at 11:49 AM, Recordon, David wrote:

> As I've stated in the past, I have no problem with using
> schema.openid.net to define attributes such as the authoritative  
> URI for
> an OpenID URL, i-name, etc.
>
> I do have a problem with using this namespace to define an attribute
> such as a First Name.  I do not feel that this community should be
> dealing with all of the issues such as First Name vs. Given Name, as
> that is not where the expertise is, let alone it has been done in the
> past.  I also strongly believe that due to the number of other
> definitions of these attributes, either we as a community should  
> decide
> to use one of them or work with a project such as ID Schemas to  
> create a
> set of URIs not tied to the OpenID project that solves both our needs
> and the needs of others.  I do not particularly care where this work
> would happen and as I've said in the past, I'd be fine with someone  
> just
> buying a domain to do the work to preserve the speed for getting this
> bootstrapped while not tying it to OpenID.

If really don't care, then you should not care if it is happening in  
OpenID then.

>
> First Name:
>  - http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/ws/2005/05/identity/claims/givenname

This URL could be used. To date they have not made these self  
describing. Who knows what this is? The AX proposal is to make the  
URLs describing. This makes it easier for programmers to know what it  
is they are working with.

>  - http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/firstName
>  - http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/givenname

Both of these are elements in a larger XML document. This is not the  
model of AX.

>  - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_name

While intriguing to have wikiality define terms, this is not  
practical since the definition needs to be static or code will break

>
> I'm sure if Paul Trevithick or Mark Whal join this conversation they'd
> be able to highlight even more URI definitions of a First Name than I
> was in a cursory search.  This also isn't including all of the work  
> done
> for things such as LDAP, vCard, or others listed at
> http://idschemas.idcommons.net/moin.cgi/List_Of_Schemas in defining  
> what
> these schema attributes are and mean.

Most other work has created closed schemas. The AX proposal is an  
open schema where anyone can define a new attribute and each one is  
self describing.

>
> If we want to create URLs for attributes from an existing schema (such
> as LDAP or vCard) since easy URLs do not currently exist, then that is
> one thing.  Creating an entirely new definition of commonly used
> attributes IMHO is unacceptable.

People keep doing it for a variety of reasons. People keep inventing  
new programming languages.


>   We should be reusing anything that we
> can, not inventing something new especially given the complexity of  
> this
> particular task.

The task has largely been done. Still need to finalize the meta-data  
file format.

>
> I'm not sure what more I can do to urge this community to not reinvent
> the wheel in this area.

See comment at top. AX does not need a wheel. AX needs a wing. Wings  
don't exist right now.

-- Dick







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