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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">If Amazon says it no longer wants any events from oracle on subject X, that is clearly a command.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">/Dick<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On 3/1/17, 7:06 PM, someone claiming to be "Phil Hunt (IDM)" <<a href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">Depends on what you are expressing. If you are saying amazon has an interest in subject x, it is an event compatible with data plane. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">If you are saying amazon wants oracle to deliver events on subject x, that is a command and must be part of control. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">The problem is that no party should be forced to disclosed events because a third party says so. They must get consent from their subject. We should get legal to confirm this. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">My thought is that the event causes the receiver to subsequently confirm with the user for permission. <br>
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Phil<o:p></o:p></p>
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On Mar 1, 2017, at 4:46 PM, Hardt, Dick <<a href="mailto:dick@amazon.com">dick@amazon.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Mixing control plane and data plane is very concerning to me.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">That is considered an anti-pattern in AWS. It complicates development, security and operations.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">/Dick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">On 2/28/17, 10:24 PM, someone claiming to be "Adam Dawes" <<a href="mailto:adawes@google.com">adawes@google.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Thanks for bringing this up Dick. I think you're worried about, when
<a href="mailto:alice@gmail.com">alice@gmail.com</a> signs up for an account at Amazon, how would Amazon register to get events from Google. I think we can deal with this if Amazon sends a SET token to google with an "account created" event which would then
create a registration at google for Amazon to receive events about alice@. <o:p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">I think it is totally reasonable to think of account creation as a notifiable event. And in typical RISC fashion, it is up to the recipient to do what it will with the events. From Google's perspective, we would
white list a set of partners where we have contracts to enable implicit registration. I think we should work out some response codes to make it clear to the sender whether the registration succeeded.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">We didn't talk a lot about this in the F2F but is an idea that I had in my deck and I think it came up in Phil and my conversation last week. Phil, does the above give you any concerns? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:12 AM, Phil Hunt (IDM) <<a href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" target="_blank">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">RISC use case is typically bi-directional so events can be used. It also works better because usually a receiver may add only or drop only depending on implicit or explicit federation. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">Adam argued for all other update items to be done OOB. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">That just left error signalling for the receiver to find out why events were not coming. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in">We left it that scim can be quickly added for those that want full automated CRUD (oracle does). Buy it would not be required in core. <span style="color:#888888"><br>
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On Feb 28, 2017, at 8:32 AM, Hardt, Dick <<a href="mailto:dick@amazon.com" target="_blank">dick@amazon.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Perhaps I am missing it, but I don’t see a mechanism for the receiver to add / delete which subjects the receiver is interested in. Is this not included, or am I misunderstanding what is below?
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Or is that out of scope? If so, that seems odd as there is a control plane API in (3)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">/Dick</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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On 2/28/17, 12:53 AM, someone claiming to be "Openid-specs-risc on behalf of Adam Dawes" <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-risc-bounces@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-risc-bounces@lists.openid.net</a> on behalf of
<a href="mailto:adawes@google.com" target="_blank">adawes@google.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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I think this is great Phil. Thanks again for the detailed conversation where we were able to arrive at this.<o:p></o:p></p>
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On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Phil Hunt <<a href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" target="_blank">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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Please confirm if you agree with the following:<o:p></o:p></p>
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I had previously promised to break up the distribution draft into components. I ran into some difficulty as to how subscribers (receivers) of events find out if the publisher is having problems delivering events.
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After some discussion with the RISC WG folks and Adam Dawes, I would like to propose that I break out a SET Transmission draft that includes the following:<o:p></o:p></p>
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1. Basic HTTPS POST profile to a specified endpoint. It is up to the receiver to provide fault tolerance and high-availability that meets its own delivery assurance requirements.<o:p></o:p></p>
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2. A set of metadata that describes the endpoints, the encryption methods (eg. keys for signing and encrypting JWTs) etc.<o:p></o:p></p>
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3. A simple control plane API that allows a subscriber (receiver) to perform an HTTPS GET to obtain the current configuration and subscription (stream) status. While compatible with SCIM, it will NOT require SCIM to be implemented. <o:p></o:p></p>
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4. Configuration of subscriptions (streams) is done through out-of-scope administrative processes offered by event publishers.<o:p></o:p></p>
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5. In the initial profile, subscribers will not be able to “pause” streams automatically unless offered through the administrative interface of the publisher.<o:p></o:p></p>
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If people have a need for automated management, the basic idea is that you implement the POST and PATCH methods of SCIM and you are good to go. We don’t need to spend a lot of time on it as there is nothing special to do once the metadata for streams is defined.<o:p></o:p></p>
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Does this work for everyone?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="color:black">Phil</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="color:black">Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services & Identity Standards</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="color:black">@independentid</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="color:black"><a href="http://www.independentid.com" target="_blank">www.independentid.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:phil.hunt@oracle.com" target="_blank">phil.hunt@oracle.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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Id-event mailing list<br>
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<a href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event" target="_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/id-event</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:#555555;border:solid #D50F25 1.5pt;padding:2.0pt">Adam Dawes |</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:#555555;border:solid #3369E8 1.5pt;padding:2.0pt"> Sr. Product Manager |</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:#555555;border:solid #009939 1.5pt;padding:2.0pt"> <a href="mailto:adawes@google.com" target="_blank">adawes@google.com</a> |</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:#555555;border:solid #EEB211 1.5pt;padding:2.0pt"> +1
<a href="tel:(650)%20214-2410" target="_blank">650-214-2410</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:1.0in;line-height:18.0pt"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:#555555;border:solid #D50F25 1.5pt;padding:2.0pt">Adam Dawes |</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:#555555;border:solid #3369E8 1.5pt;padding:2.0pt"> Sr.
Product Manager |</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:#555555;border:solid #009939 1.5pt;padding:2.0pt"> <a href="mailto:adawes@google.com" target="_blank">adawes@google.com</a> |</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;color:#555555;border:solid #EEB211 1.5pt;padding:2.0pt"> +1
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