<div>+1 </div>
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<div>Just a few points. <br><div><br></div>
<div>For the first tier, which I label as "mass enrollment", A trust framework where a trust framework operator and other participants get into contracts may work better from the scalability point of view. Mutual legal agreement quickly get us into N^2 agreement explosion whereas a trust framework only has N+1. </div>
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<div>Also, we should not use the term "opt-in" in this case since we are enrolling the users by default. we are enrolling the users with opt-out. </div>
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<div>Nat </div>
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<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><p>On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 8:36 AM, Brad Hill <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hillbrad@gmail.com" target="_blank">hillbrad@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></p><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div>
<div dir="ltr">Regarding today's discussion on establishing trust relationships and bootstrapping for already established accounts. I would argue for a two-tiered approach.<br><br><div>One tier would be companies that execute mutual legal agreements and are able to opt-in users via their global ToS. This would likely require with an opt-out mechanism as deemed appropriate by each organization's legal counsel and appropriate to the markets they operate in, but this could be transparent to the other side of the relationship. So long as company X and Y have a mutual agreement executed, all requests for account data would be whitelisted. If X said "I have an account for user@Y", you'd believe them, and have contractual recourse if they were lying.</div>
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<div>The second tier would require more explicit opt-in, like an OAuth flow, to connect the accounts, and because it would have direct user approval would not need any prearrangements between the entities holding the accounts on the user's behalf.</div>
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<div>I think trying to force all existing accounts to go through an explicit consent flow is just too big of an obstacle to ever getting operational at a meaningful scale. Maybe some large organizations in some jurisdictions would prefer or need to use the explicit opt-in flows exclusively, but having a streamlined flow where some large fraction of the top 10 or 100 global account providers can establish mutual trust to bootstrap the first 10e8 connections without an enormous amount of explicit point-to-point bookkeeping and user friction seems absolutely necessary for this to be meaningful in protecting users on any reasonable time scale.</div>
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<div>If there are tradeoffs to be made in terms of the scope or fidelity of the sharing vs. the ability to automatically provision, I would urge we go as far as we can towards low-fidelity low-friction (while still providing a useful signal) for the same reason. </div>
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<div>-Brad</div>
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<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:14 AM 'Adam Dawes' via Abuse and ATO Coordination <<a href="mailto:aatoc@googlegroups.com">aatoc@googlegroups.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><span><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial;font-size:15px;font-weight:bold;white-space:pre-wrap;line-height:1.38;background-color:transparent">Agenda</span><br></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><li style="list-style-type:disc;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent"><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">IPR update</span></p></li>
<li style="list-style-type:disc;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent"><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">OASIS group STIX/TAXII next steps</span></p></li>
<li style="list-style-type:disc;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent"><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="text-decoration:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent"><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/16QrQo5O1Afj4sZBZhJDHr9HxTtWERGHdle-0a4B6UT8/edit" style="text-decoration:none">PR release</a></span></p></li>
<li style="list-style-type:disc;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent"><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">Weekly call times</p></li>
<li style="list-style-type:disc;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent"><p style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">Technical Discussion</span></p></li>
<ul style="margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><li style="list-style-type:circle;font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;background-color:transparent"><span style="vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">How do we operationalize trust relationships. Going forward, looking backward</span></li></ul></ul><div><font color="#000000" face="Arial"><span style="font-size:15px;white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></font></div>
<div>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">Where: </span><a href="https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/764054389" style="text-decoration:none"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;text-decoration:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/764054389</span></a></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">Use your microphone and speakers (VoIP) – a headset is recommended. Or, call in using your telephone.</span></p>
<br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">US phone number: +1 (312) 878-3080. </span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">International Numbers:</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">Australia: +61 2 8355 1034</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">Canada: +1 (647) 497-9376</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">France: +33 (0) 170 950 586</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">Germany: +49 (0) 811 8899 6931</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">Spain: +34 932 20 0506</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt;margin-left:36pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">United Kingdom: +44 (0) 330 221 0098</span></p>
<br><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">Access Code: 736-042-757</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting</span></p>
<p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap;background-color:transparent">Meeting ID: 764-054-389</span></p>
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