[Openid-specs-risc] RISC event URIs

Mike Jones Michael.Jones at microsoft.com
Tue Apr 18 22:55:38 UTC 2017


I could live with either http://schemas.openid.net/event/risc/account-deleted, which groups all OpenID Foundation-defined SETs under one namespace prefix (which I personally think is the right thing to do, from a Foundation-centric perspective) or http://schemas.openid.net/risc/event/account-deleted, which groups all RISC-defines URLs under one namespace prefix (which I understand some may prefer from a RISC-centric perspective).  But I can’t support including the name of an IETF working group (which will disappear after the SecEvent WG charter deliverables are completed) in an OpenID-defined URL, especially when doing so would add no information over the “event” name component that would already be there.

                                                                -- Mike

From: Marius Scurtescu [mailto:mscurtescu at google.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 3:36 PM
To: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>
Cc: Hardt, Dick <dick at amazon.com>; Phil Hunt <phil.hunt at oracle.com>; openid-specs-risc at lists.openid.net
Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-risc] RISC event URIs

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 3:33 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com<mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>> wrote:
I meant “event” to designate a SET definition, “risc” to designate the (optional) working group name, “http://schemas.openid.net” root the name in an OpenID namespace, and “account-deleted” to be the WG-specific event name.

Having both “secevent” and “event” is redundant.

"event" is there to make it clear that this is about an event type, there could be other URIs needed than event types.


                                                                -- Mike

From: Marius Scurtescu [mailto:mscurtescu at google.com<mailto:mscurtescu at google.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 3:31 PM
To: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com<mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>>
Cc: Hardt, Dick <dick at amazon.com<mailto:dick at amazon.com>>; Phil Hunt <phil.hunt at oracle.com<mailto:phil.hunt at oracle.com>>; openid-specs-risc at lists.openid.net<mailto:openid-specs-risc at lists.openid.net>

Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-risc] RISC event URIs

Hm, maybe you meant "event" to be the working group name, and not short for "event type" (which I had in mind).

If so, then maybe we should use "secevent":
http://schemas.openid.net/secevent/risc/event/account-deleted


Marius

On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com<mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>> wrote:
I’d actually do it in the other order.  I think that all OpenID-defined events from all working groups should start with http://schemas.openid.net/event/.  The event name should follow that, which may optionally include a working group name as part of the event name.  So the right name for account-deleted, if “risc” is to be included, is http://schemas.openid.net/event/risc/account-deleted.

                                                                -- Mike

From: Marius Scurtescu [mailto:mscurtescu at google.com<mailto:mscurtescu at google.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2017 3:17 PM
To: Hardt, Dick <dick at amazon.com<mailto:dick at amazon.com>>
Cc: Phil Hunt <phil.hunt at oracle.com<mailto:phil.hunt at oracle.com>>; Mike Jones <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com<mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>>; openid-specs-risc at lists.openid.net<mailto:openid-specs-risc at lists.openid.net>

Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-risc] RISC event URIs

Alright, unless anyone has objections let's go with the URL based event types (and potentially other URIs that the specs may need).

As John mentioned on the call yesterday, this also has the advantage that we could setup documentation pages behind these URLs, so URIs have obvious documentation attached.

As a nit, I think the account-deleted event type should be:
http://schemas.openid.net/risc/event/account-deleted

I moved "risc" before "event". We might need other RISC URIs which are not event types.


Marius

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Hardt, Dick <dick at amazon.com<mailto:dick at amazon.com>> wrote:
The advantage of Marius’s original proposal is that it ensures that the event identifier will be globally unique without coordination between anyone profiling secevent since all events in the profile will need to start with a profile specific string.

In other words, there is the possibility of an event name collision if secevent leaves each profile to determine the event ID with no other guidance.

If secevent requires a URI and that the profile use a domain that is associated with the profile, then the collision risk is avoided.

Assuming that is in secevent, then

http://schemas.openid.net/event/risc/account-deleted<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__schemas.openid.net_event_risc_account-2Ddeleted&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=JBm5biRrKugCH0FkITSeGJxPEivzjWwlNKe4C_lLIGk&m=IT6azVbuki1_pmbosRf1uN_NZqVzNldI8AI9fWdg32o&s=Fv9F4TKG7qD9gN9r9NPaA4dYsqek-m-sctnLBHLfKcc&e=>

works fine.

/Dick



On 4/12/17, 2:05 PM, someone claiming to be "Openid-specs-risc on behalf of Phil Hunt" <openid-specs-risc-bounces at lists.openid.net<mailto:openid-specs-risc-bounces at lists.openid.net> on behalf of phil.hunt at oracle.com<mailto:phil.hunt at oracle.com>> wrote:

I agree with Mike.

I don’t think you really have to have a hierarchy.

The real issue is the value of having a vetted central registry. I do think there is some value to eliminate duplication and confusion.

I’m on the fence. It would be good get some rough proposed event definitions from RISC and SCIM for example and compare and contrast the similarities and differences and decide if they should be expressed differently.

Phil

Oracle Corporation, Identity Cloud Services Architect & Standards
@independentid
www.independentid.com<http://www.independentid.com>
phil.hunt at oracle.com<mailto:phil.hunt at oracle.com>











On Apr 12, 2017, at 1:50 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com<mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>> wrote:

openid.ns values in http://openid.net/specs/openid-authentication-2_0.html#anchor4<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__openid.net_specs_openid-2Dauthentication-2D2-5F0.html-23anchor4&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=JBm5biRrKugCH0FkITSeGJxPEivzjWwlNKe4C_lLIGk&m=IT6azVbuki1_pmbosRf1uN_NZqVzNldI8AI9fWdg32o&s=_DGYGG9FeymBn6OqVohCgnpnHEKx-iORfkoGbfvw9Sw&e=>
Claimed Identifier URI in http://openid.net/specs/openid-authentication-2_0.html#discovery<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__openid.net_specs_openid-2Dauthentication-2D2-5F0.html-23discovery&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=JBm5biRrKugCH0FkITSeGJxPEivzjWwlNKe4C_lLIGk&m=IT6azVbuki1_pmbosRf1uN_NZqVzNldI8AI9fWdg32o&s=i_Efd_jqHWw_nd402qXtksQfNlpOo9adIUyBmsnKDHw&e=>
                (there are plenty more in this spec)
Attribute exchange namespace at http://openid.net/specs/openid-attribute-exchange-1_0.html#anchor2<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__openid.net_specs_openid-2Dattribute-2Dexchange-2D1-5F0.html-23anchor2&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=JBm5biRrKugCH0FkITSeGJxPEivzjWwlNKe4C_lLIGk&m=IT6azVbuki1_pmbosRf1uN_NZqVzNldI8AI9fWdg32o&s=ht1coU3G-1vOvg5hIdxr1IDgU2bC2vdyoe9z1JXOVp8&e=>
PAPE namespace at http://openid.net/specs/openid-provider-authentication-policy-extension-1_0.html#anchor3<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__openid.net_specs_openid-2Dprovider-2Dauthentication-2Dpolicy-2Dextension-2D1-5F0.html-23anchor3&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=JBm5biRrKugCH0FkITSeGJxPEivzjWwlNKe4C_lLIGk&m=IT6azVbuki1_pmbosRf1uN_NZqVzNldI8AI9fWdg32o&s=U8rYDwzBzOU4Vtkp0KRTXd22-a8bq0fxVnQcToUb1Ns&e=>
Issuer URI at https://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-discovery-1_0.html#IssuerDiscovery<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__openid.net_specs_openid-2Dconnect-2Ddiscovery-2D1-5F0.html-23IssuerDiscovery&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=JBm5biRrKugCH0FkITSeGJxPEivzjWwlNKe4C_lLIGk&m=IT6azVbuki1_pmbosRf1uN_NZqVzNldI8AI9fWdg32o&s=oXmQRXaMpUPH-nB4gDeKjSWILDF7BdTtLHiV5zb3rUU&e=>
Backchannel Logout event at http://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-backchannel-1_0.html#LogoutToken<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__openid.net_specs_openid-2Dconnect-2Dbackchannel-2D1-5F0.html-23LogoutToken&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=JBm5biRrKugCH0FkITSeGJxPEivzjWwlNKe4C_lLIGk&m=IT6azVbuki1_pmbosRf1uN_NZqVzNldI8AI9fWdg32o&s=wPXcz4P307OtW13LMmlvJGx7dIvt3F4z9-HH42ojRzY&e=>
MODRNA policies at file:///C:/mbj/DSG/OpenID/MODRNA/openid-connect-modrna-authentication-1_0.html#rfc.section.4
EAP ACR URIs at http://openid.net/specs/openid-connect-eap-acr-values-1_0.html#ClaimsContents<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__openid.net_specs_openid-2Dconnect-2Deap-2Dacr-2Dvalues-2D1-5F0.html-23ClaimsContents&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=JBm5biRrKugCH0FkITSeGJxPEivzjWwlNKe4C_lLIGk&m=IT6azVbuki1_pmbosRf1uN_NZqVzNldI8AI9fWdg32o&s=u6DfdgmHebc9XFcNGx5icscB9essDnJRqYjUo2SnAmA&e=>
Etc.

There are plenty more.  These are just a quick subset I knew about off the top of my head.

Yes, it would be OK to put “risc” in the name.  The, for instance you might use this URI for Account Deleted:
              Assum

IETF and “secevent” don’t really have a reason to be in these event names, because it’s the OpenID RISC WG defining these events, not the IETF or the SecEvent WG.

                                                                -- Mike

From: Marius Scurtescu [mailto:mscurtescu at google.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2017 1:34 PM
To: Mike Jones <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com<mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>>
Cc: Phil Hunt (IDM) <phil.hunt at oracle.com<mailto:phil.hunt at oracle.com>>; openid-specs-risc at lists.openid.net<mailto:openid-specs-risc at lists.openid.net>
Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-risc] RISC event URIs

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Marius Scurtescu <mscurtescu at google.com<mailto:mscurtescu at google.com>> wrote:
Shouldn't "risc" (the profile name) be part of the URI?

Similarly, what about "ietf" and "secevent" being part of the URI?


Can you point to some of these other specifications and URIs?

Marius

On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Mike Jones <Michael.Jones at microsoft.com<mailto:Michael.Jones at microsoft.com>> wrote:
I’d suggest that RISC event names be openid.net<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__openid.net&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=JBm5biRrKugCH0FkITSeGJxPEivzjWwlNKe4C_lLIGk&m=IT6azVbuki1_pmbosRf1uN_NZqVzNldI8AI9fWdg32o&s=dzuYBPXCYMEBvFpUEktnn8u3lkEPeUHcausoF2NU45c&e=> URIs.  For instance, I’d use the event name http://schemas.openid.net/event/account-deleted<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__schemas.openid.net_event_account-2Ddeleted&d=DwMGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10&r=JBm5biRrKugCH0FkITSeGJxPEivzjWwlNKe4C_lLIGk&m=IT6azVbuki1_pmbosRf1uN_NZqVzNldI8AI9fWdg32o&s=KerUNwzFrztEwKDzo7GXe2-W_8iuWNrnLZ-5Kvv2Afk&e=> for the Account Deleted event that Marius described.  That would be consistent with how other things have been historically named in OpenID specifications.

                                                                -- Mike

From: Openid-specs-risc [mailto:openid-specs-risc-bounces at lists.openid.net<mailto:openid-specs-risc-bounces at lists.openid.net>] On Behalf Of Phil Hunt (IDM)
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 3:00 PM
To: Marius Scurtescu <mscurtescu at google.com<mailto:mscurtescu at google.com>>
Cc: openid-specs-risc at lists.openid.net<mailto:openid-specs-risc at lists.openid.net>
Subject: Re: [Openid-specs-risc] RISC event URIs

That said. It is perfectly ok for risc to use urns while the core spec specified uri.

There would just be no central event registry except within risc.

Phil

On Apr 11, 2017, at 2:37 PM, Marius Scurtescu <mscurtescu at google.com<mailto:mscurtescu at google.com>> wrote:
Good point, will start the discussion on the secevent list.

Marius

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Hardt, Dick <dick at amazon.com<mailto:dick at amazon.com>> wrote:
I think the format of these should be decided in secevent.

I think your proposal of secevents starting with “urn:ietf:params:secevent:event-type:” is one worth proposing in secevent.

"urn:ietf:params:secevent:aud-client-id:<client-id>" is clearly a secevent discussion item

/Dick

On 4/11/17, 2:16 PM, someone claiming to be "Marius Scurtescu" <mscurtescu at google.com<mailto:mscurtescu at google.com>> wrote:

"urn:ietf:params:secevent:event-type:risc:sessions-revoked" would be an event URI, the key under the "events" claim

"urn:ietf:params:secevent:aud-client-id:<client-id>" would be the aud claim, and this solves the "SET re-played as an access token" issue


Marius

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Hardt, Dick <dick at amazon.com<mailto:dick at amazon.com>> wrote:
Where are you thinking this is in the secevent SET Marius?

On 4/11/17, 10:56 AM, someone claiming to be "Openid-specs-risc on behalf of Marius Scurtescu" <openid-specs-risc-bounces at lists.openid.net<mailto:openid-specs-risc-bounces at lists.openid.net> on behalf of mscurtescu at google.com<mailto:mscurtescu at google.com>> wrote:

While talking about events, we should also decide how the event URI will look like for RISC.

I propose we use URN sub-delegation for "ietf" namespace (RFC 3553), something like:
urn:ietf:params:secevent:event-type:risc:sessions-revoked
urn:ietf:params:secevent:event-type:risc:tokens-revoked
urn:ietf:params:secevent:event-type:risc:account-deleted
urn:ietf:params:secevent:event-type:risc:all ?

Maybe instead of "event-type" in the above URNs we should use "profile"? Since "risc" above signifies a whole class of event type and not a particular one:
urn:ietf:params:secevent:profile:risc:sessions-revoked
...

We can use this scheme for other RISC related URNs, like a prefixed aud:
urn:ietf:params:secevent:aud-client-id:<client-id>

Thoughts?

Marius


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