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    <font face="Arial">I think this wsd describes John's model<br>
      <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.websequencediagrams.com/cgi-bin/cdraw?lz=cGFydGljaXBhbnQgYnJvd3NlcgoACAxUQQACDU4AAQ5BUzEAAg5wcEluZm8AFQ8yAEUNUlMyCgoKVEEtPkFTMTogZ2V0IHVzZXIgYXV0aGVudGljYXRlZApBUzEtPlRBOiBSVCxBVAApBwBYBgAvBUJvb3RzdHJhcChBVCkKAHEHACwGYm9vABUFVVJMAGIGAIFRBwAVBQAvBgAWBQCBaAcAgQEHAA4OAHoFAC8JcmVkaXJlY3QgdG8gQVMyKHNjb3BlICsgU1NPIHRva2VuKQBBDTI6AIFIBXpyZXF1ZXN0ACkGKwAhDG5vdGUgb3ZlciAAKQV2YWxpZGF0ZQBHCgoKQVMyAIEvC2NvbnNlbgBEByk_AF8QeWVzACIQcmV0dXJuIGNvZGUgAIFhC1RBOgAPBQCCegcyOiBleGNoYW5nZQARBgByBVRBOiBhY2Nlc3MAgQYIVEEtPk4ABhBOQS0-UlM6IFJFU1QgY2FsbCAoACoMKQoKCgoKCgABBQ&s=patent">http://www.websequencediagrams.com/cgi-bin/cdraw?lz=cGFydGljaXBhbnQgYnJvd3NlcgoACAxUQQACDU4AAQ5BUzEAAg5wcEluZm8AFQ8yAEUNUlMyCgoKVEEtPkFTMTogZ2V0IHVzZXIgYXV0aGVudGljYXRlZApBUzEtPlRBOiBSVCxBVAApBwBYBgAvBUJvb3RzdHJhcChBVCkKAHEHACwGYm9vABUFVVJMAGIGAIFRBwAVBQAvBgAWBQCBaAcAgQEHAA4OAHoFAC8JcmVkaXJlY3QgdG8gQVMyKHNjb3BlICsgU1NPIHRva2VuKQBBDTI6AIFIBXpyZXF1ZXN0ACkGKwAhDG5vdGUgb3Zlci
 AAKQV2YWx
pZGF0ZQBHCgoKQVMyAIEvC2NvbnNlbgBEByk_AF8QeWVzACIQcmV0dXJuIGNvZGUgAIFhC1RBOgAPBQCCegcyOiBleGNoYW5nZQARBgByBVRBOiBhY2Nlc3MAgQYIVEEtPk4ABhBOQS0-UlM6IFJFU1QgY2FsbCAoACoMKQoKCgoKCgABBQ&s=patent</a><br>
      <br>
      Question - in the step that John refers to as '</font><font
      face="Arial">trigger the IdP initiated login via Connect or SAML'
      - what support is there for an authenticated authz request?<br>
      <br>
      Distinct from how the browser gets sent to AS2 is what AS2 returns
      - in this case a code, and the TA exchanges that code for the
      desired AT ( to be handed to the native app)<br>
      <br>
      John was advocating a different model<br>
      <br>
      paul<br>
      <br>
    </font>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/8/14, 2:46 PM, John Bradley wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:18BF96E6-66B3-4811-9718-C24D4273709B@ve7jtb.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Context-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=iso-8859-1">
      For bootstrapping a web session in SAML as an example you could
      directly create a IdP initiated login URI + post body and have the
      browser send that to the third party AS directly.
      <div>I think that is more problematic from a security perspective
        as there is no way for the home AS to say compare the ip address
        of the browser with the ip address of the TA or make use of
        other authentication factors.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Logically I prefer to have the TA bootstrap the browser to
        itself and from there trigger the IdP initiated login via
        Connect or SAML.   That is the only way you can do a IdP
        initiated login with connect, otherwise the user needs to
        authenticate to there home AS in the browser somewhat defeating
        the point.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>
        <div>
          <div>On Apr 8, 2014, at 12:36 PM, Paul Madsen <<a
              moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paul.madsen@gmail.com">paul.madsen@gmail.com</a>>
            wrote:</div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <div> hi Mike, inline<br>
              <br>
              paul<br>
              <br>
              <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/7/14, 9:19 AM, Mike
                Varley wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote
                cite="mid:78F7F7C2-7C13-43C2-9984-0AF8743358C4@securekey.com"
                type="cite"> A couple comments/questions:
                <div>1) what is the 'API' endpoint the bootstrap URL
                  request is going to? Is this the RS?</div>
              </blockquote>
              would be the AppInfo endpoint (hosted by AS1) that the
              NAPPS spec describes<br>
              <br>
              To obtain application metadata information, the <em>TA</em>
              MAY make a GET or POST request to the AppInfo Endpoint.<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <blockquote
                cite="mid:78F7F7C2-7C13-43C2-9984-0AF8743358C4@securekey.com"
                type="cite">
                <div>2) Seems like a lot of round-trips. On mobile,
                  performance will suffer</div>
              </blockquote>
              if the round trips are performed only for gathering
              consent ....<br>
              <blockquote
                cite="mid:78F7F7C2-7C13-43C2-9984-0AF8743358C4@securekey.com"
                type="cite">
                <div>3) how does consent from the browser result in an
                  AT to the App?</div>
              </blockquote>
              <br>
              John proposed a model where<br>
              <br>
              1) the TA is delivered an id_token targeted at AS2<br>
              2) the user agent is sent to AS2 for consent<br>
              3) once consent is obtained, the TA exchanges the id_token
              for an AT <br>
              4) TA hands AT to app<br>
              <br>
              <blockquote
                cite="mid:78F7F7C2-7C13-43C2-9984-0AF8743358C4@securekey.com"
                type="cite">
                <div><br>
                </div>
                <div>MV</div>
                <div><br>
                  <div>
                    <div>On Apr 4, 2014, at 5:53 PM, John Bradley <<a
                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com">ve7jtb@ve7jtb.com</a>>

                      wrote:</div>
                    <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <div dir="auto">
                        <div>If the target of the SAML IdP initiated
                          login is the OAuth authorization Uri we
                          shouldn't need extra attributes in the SAML
                          assertion. <br>
                          <br>
                          Sent from my iPhone</div>
                        <div><br>
                          On Apr 4, 2014, at 3:16 PM, Paul Madsen <<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:paul.madsen@gmail.com">paul.madsen@gmail.com</a>>

                          wrote:<br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote type="cite">I dont think we should
                          preclude IdP-init SAML into the AS2 consent
                          page - for those SaaS currently set up as SAML
                          SPs & OAuth AS<br>
                          <br>
                          implying us defining a scope param on the SAML
                          Response?<br>
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/4/14, 2:16
                            PM, John Bradley wrote:<br>
                          </div>
                          <blockquote
                            cite="mid:0B8F5110-CD04-4ACC-8E1F-D2B03B3E5AE1@ve7jtb.com"
                            type="cite"> Yes.
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>There are two options I can think of
                              for the last step of AS2 collecting
                              consent.</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>The request can have a response_type of
                              code and the TA gets back a code that it
                              can use to get a AT from the AS2 token
                              endpoint.   </div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>The other would be to make the call to
                              AS2 with a response-type of "none" just to
                              collect consent, getting back nothing.</div>
                            <div>The TA would then use the JWT assertion
                              flow to exchange a JWT for the access
                              token.</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>I think the second option is more
                              secure and allows a JWT issued by AS1 to
                              be used instead of a refresh token issued
                              by AS2.  The advantage is that AS1 has the
                              ability to revoke access to the resource
                              without needing a separate API to AS2.</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div>John B.</div>
                            <div><br>
                            </div>
                            <div><br>
                              <div>
                                <div>On Apr 4, 2014, at 2:00 PM, Paul
                                  Madsen <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:paul.madsen@gmail.com">paul.madsen@gmail.com</a>>

                                  wrote:</div>
                                <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                                <blockquote type="cite">
                                  <div>John, something like <br>
                                    <br>
                                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                      class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.websequencediagrams.com/cgi-bin/cdraw?lz=cGFydGljaXBhbnQgYnJvd3NlcgoACAxUQQACDUFTMQACDlBJABEPMgoKClRBLT5BUzE6IGdldCB1c2VyIGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0ZWQKQVMxLT5UQTogUlQsQVQAKQdQSQArBUJvb3RzdHJhcChBVCkKQVBJACQGYm9vABEFVVJMAFoGAIEmBwAVBQArBgAWBQCBPQcAeQcADg4AcgUALwlyZWRpcmVjdCB0byBBUzIoaWRfdG9rZW4sc2NvcGUpAD4NMjoAgT0FenJlcXVlc3QAGhJub3RlIG92ZXIgACgFdmFsaWRhdGUgAE0ICgpBUzIAgSoLY29uc2VudCgAZgY_CgoKCgo&s=patent">http://www.websequencediagrams.com/cgi-bin/cdraw?lz=cGFydGljaXBhbnQgYnJvd3NlcgoACAxUQQACDUFTMQACDlBJABEPMgoKClRBLT5BUzE6IGdldCB1c2VyIGF1dGhlbnRpY2F0ZWQKQVMxLT5UQTogUlQsQVQAKQdQSQArBUJvb3RzdHJhcChBVCkKQVBJACQGYm9vABEFVVJMAFoGAIEmBwAVBQArBgAWBQCBPQcAeQcADg4AcgUALwlyZWRpcmVjdCB0byBBUzIoaWRfdG9rZW4sc2NvcGUpAD4NMjoAgT0FenJlcXVlc3QAGhJub3RlIG92ZXIgACgFdmFsaWRhdGUgAE0ICgpBUzIAgSoLY29uc2VudCgAZgY_CgoKCgo&s=patent</a><br>
                                    <br>
                                    <br>
                                    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On
                                      4/4/14, 1:42 PM, John Bradley
                                      wrote:<br>
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote
                                      cite="mid:50B3AAE5-5023-422A-B5B4-061B0FA1690A@ve7jtb.com"
                                      type="cite"> I was thinking of a
                                      bootstrap URL that trigged idP
                                      initiated login at AS2.  That way
                                      the bootstrap URI is essentially
                                      opaque as it is both specified and
                                      consumed by the IsP/AS of the TA.
                                      <div><br>
                                      </div>
                                      <div><br>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>On Apr 4, 2014, at 1:26
                                            PM, Chuck Mortimore <<a
                                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              href="mailto:cmortimore@salesforce.com">cmortimore@salesforce.com</a>>

                                            wrote:</div>
                                          <br
                                            class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                                          <blockquote type="cite">
                                            <div dir="ltr">Sounds
                                              similar, yes, although
                                              working out a boostrap URL
                                              across different ASs might
                                              be quite difficult in
                                              practice</div>
                                            <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                              <br>
                                              <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                                Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at
                                                10:25 AM, Paul Madsen <span
                                                  dir="ltr"> <<a
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul.madsen@gmail.com" target="_blank">paul.madsen@gmail.com</a>></span>
                                                wrote:<br>
                                                <blockquote
                                                  class="gmail_quote">
                                                  <div>hey Chuck, you
                                                    write <br>
                                                    <br>
                                                    'If the TA were to
                                                    simply use it's
                                                    primary token to
                                                    initialize an OAuth
                                                    authorization
                                                    request for the
                                                    scope of the
                                                    requesting native
                                                    app, we could
                                                    simplify this whole
                                                    thing.  '<br>
                                                    <br>
                                                    John had (in this
                                                    thread) previously
                                                    proposed something
                                                    similar <br>
                                                    <br>
                                                    'If we have a web
                                                    app bootstrap AS1
                                                    could give a
                                                    bootstrap URI to the
                                                    App that would
                                                    create a
                                                    authenticated
                                                    session at AS2 for
                                                    the user to do the
                                                    normal OAuth consent
                                                    flow.'<br>
                                                    <br>
                                                    I believe John's
                                                    model accomplishes
                                                    the same thing as
                                                    your proposal, ie
                                                    delivers the user's
                                                    browser (in an
                                                    authenticated state)
                                                    to an AS where
                                                    consent can be
                                                    gathered - albeit
                                                    perhaps with more
                                                    steps<span
                                                      class="HOEnZb"><br>
                                                      <br>
                                                      paul<br>
                                                      <br>
                                                    </span>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <div class="h5">
                                                        <div>On 4/2/14,
                                                          5:49 PM, Chuck
                                                          Mortimore
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                        </div>
                                                        <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <div dir="ltr">
                                                          <div>We don't
                                                          think there
                                                          should at all
                                                          be an "implied
                                                          consent"
                                                          model (i.e.,
                                                          authentication
                                                          at the AS
                                                          authorizes the
                                                          App for
                                                          whatever it
                                                          needs).  
                                                           This sound
                                                          quite
                                                          dangerous, and
                                                          don't believe
                                                          this would at
                                                          all be
                                                          suitable for a
                                                          tightly
                                                          controlled
                                                          enterprise
                                                          environment.  
                                                           We do support
                                                          models that
                                                          "feel" like
                                                          this, but
                                                          consent really
                                                          isn't
                                                          implicit...It's
                                                          simply isn't
                                                          controlled or
                                                          visilbe to the
                                                          the user.   We
                                                          always run the
                                                          request
                                                          through an
                                                          authorization
                                                          check, and it
                                                          is not at all
                                                          coupled to
                                                          authentication.
                                                            Picture us
                                                          checking a
                                                          role on the
                                                          AS.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>As far
                                                          JIT consent
                                                          model, it's a
                                                          bit harder to
                                                          achieve when
                                                          using the
                                                          Token
                                                          Endpoint,
                                                          unless we
                                                          explicitly
                                                          specify the TA
                                                          is collecting
                                                          consent, what
                                                          to collect,
                                                          etc.
                                                           Standardizing
                                                          a consent UI
                                                          strikes me as
                                                          very
                                                          difficult.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>The way
                                                          we've balanced
                                                          the two in our
                                                          environment is
                                                          to always
                                                          perform
                                                          consent on the
                                                          authorization
                                                          endpoint.  
                                                          Based on the
                                                          configuration
                                                          of the app,
                                                          we're either
                                                          checking
                                                          server side
                                                          admin defined
                                                          consent, or
                                                          prompting the
                                                          user.   </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>It's
                                                          possible we
                                                          could continue
                                                          to use this
                                                          model in NAPPS
                                                          - if we
                                                          consider the
                                                          real difficult
                                                          issue for
                                                          users is
                                                          actually
                                                          authenticating,
                                                          then
                                                          authorization
                                                          is really not
                                                          a big deal.  
                                                          If the TA were
                                                          to simply use
                                                          it's primary
                                                          token to
                                                          initialize an
                                                          OAuth
                                                          authorization
                                                          request for
                                                          the scope of
                                                          the requesting
                                                          native app, we
                                                          could simplify
                                                          this whole
                                                          thing.   </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>-cmort</div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="gmail_quote">On

                                                          Thu, Mar 20,
                                                          2014 at 1:37
                                                          PM, Paul
                                                          Madsen <span
                                                          dir="ltr">
                                                          <<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul.madsen@gmail.com" target="_blank">paul.madsen@gmail.com</a>></span>
                                                          wrote:<br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          class="gmail_quote">
                                                          <div>exploring
                                                          #5 and your
                                                          scenario<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          something like<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          1) TA gets
                                                          user
                                                          authenticated
                                                          and obtains
                                                          refresh token
                                                          with certain
                                                          scopes<br>
                                                          2) TA somehow
                                                          knows that for
                                                          a particular
                                                          app,
                                                          additional
                                                          consent is
                                                          needed, and
                                                          that a 3rd
                                                          party AS2 has
                                                          to collect it<br>
                                                          3) TA uses its
                                                          RT to obtain
                                                          an id_token
                                                          targeted at
                                                          3rd party AS2<br>
                                                          4) TA attaches
                                                          id_token to
                                                          authz request
                                                          when browser
                                                          sent to AS2 <br>
                                                          5) AS2
                                                          collects
                                                          consent<br>
                                                          6) AS2 returns
                                                          code/token etc
                                                          to TA<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Different
                                                          options for 
                                                          Steps #3 &
                                                          #4 exist <br>
                                                          <span><br>
                                                          paul<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>On
                                                          3/20/14, 3:44
                                                          PM, John
                                                          Bradley wrote:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">Inline<br>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>On Mar
                                                          20, 2014, at
                                                          4:34 PM, Paul
                                                          Madsen <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paul.madsen@gmail.com"
                                                          target="_blank">paul.madsen@gmail.com</a>>

                                                          wrote:</div>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <div>possible
                                                          permutations?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Single AS<br>
                                                              1) consent
                                                          collected at
                                                          AS</div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <div>    2)
                                                          consent
                                                          collected at
                                                          TA (and
                                                          reported to AS
                                                          in access
                                                          token
                                                          request?) <br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          For 2 some UI
                                                          elements need
                                                          to be
                                                          delivered to
                                                          the TA perhaps
                                                          via AppInfo<br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          Two ASs<br>
                                                              3) consent
                                                          collected at
                                                          AS1 (and
                                                          reported to
                                                          AS2 in
                                                          id_token?)<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          If AS 2 trusts
                                                          AS1to collect
                                                          consent it
                                                          could just
                                                          list the
                                                          scopes
                                                          granted.<br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <div>    4)
                                                          consent
                                                          collected at
                                                          TA (and
                                                          reported to
                                                          AS2 in access
                                                          token
                                                          request?)<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          This perhaps
                                                          works if the
                                                          TA is making a
                                                          authenticated
                                                          request to
                                                          AS2.  I think
                                                          3 or 5 is more
                                                          likely.<br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <div>    5)
                                                          consent
                                                          collected at
                                                          AS2<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          If we have a
                                                          web app
                                                          bootstrap AS1
                                                          could give a
                                                          bootstrap URI
                                                          to the App
                                                          that would
                                                          create a
                                                          authenticated
                                                          session at AS2
                                                          for the user
                                                          to do the
                                                          normal OAuth
                                                          consent flow.</div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div><br>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <div>paul<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <div>On
                                                          3/20/14, 11:02
                                                          AM, John
                                                          Bradley wrote:<br>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <pre>I think our conversation about collecting consent was mostly focused on the basic case where the AS the TA is talking to can directly mint access tokens.

We still may need to collect user consent beyond what was agreed to at initial setup of the TA.

I think you are going one step further where the first party AS collects consent on behalf of the 3rd party AS/RS and indicates that in the id_token. 

The second one is harder in that the third party AS would somehow need to communicate it's scopes out of band to the 1st party AS for collection.

John B.

On Mar 20, 2014, at 11:51 AM, Mike Varley <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:mike.varley@securekey.com" target="_blank"><mike.varley@securekey.com></a> wrote:

</pre>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <pre>Yeah, probably - something like a 'consent' field in the id_token or AppInfo response that the RS can match to the scope. Just making something up on the spot (and in no way really thought through but what the heck) maybe something like:

consent: implicit      //> RS should decide if it trusts AS, or maybe query AS as to what the implied consent involves.
consent: <consent_token>   //> RS should examine token to see if it matches the scope and session the token was issued to.
consent: none         //> RS should explicitly ask for consent

Note that the RS will always have final say on whether to trust the AS/TA, and whether or not to explicitly collect further user consent. 

This is just a thought, love to hear more ideas.

thanks, 

MV

On Mar 20, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Paul Madsen <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paul.madsen@gmail.com" target="_blank"><paul.madsen@gmail.com></a> wrote:

</pre>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <pre>Thanks Mike, yes Chuck raised some of the same concerns/points

What might a 'consent extension point' look like? Just suitable OPT mechanisms?

Paul

On 3/20/14, 10:32 AM, Mike Varley wrote:
</pre>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <pre>Hi all, sorry to have missed the meeting. I noticed that the consent question came up, and I'd like to share some of the challenges I've come across, just for consideration (again, apologies if this was covered on the call). In general, the experience has been that the various subtleties and nuances of consent can vastly complicate the model and user experience.  

If you have a model of 'implied consent' (i.e., authentication at the AS authorizes the App for whatever it needs):
- may be suitable for tightly controlled Enterprise deployments
- provides a simplified user experience
- puts the user at risk of leaking data/PII
- "all-or-nothing" consent may be a barrier to entry for users

If you have a JIT consent model:
- more suitable for 'public' or general federations of Apps and Resources
- more burden on the user, as they have to authorize against each RS for each App
- usually involves more network round-trips, which on a mobile device can impose a noticeable  delay
- RSs have to choose an entity to trust that consent has been collected:
-- Trust the AS has presented the user with the right scopes/terms of service
   (how does the AS keep these in sync with the RS policy? Is there anything in the 'scopes' themselves that leak PII? )
-- Trust the TA that it has collected consent directly from the RS before issuing tickets to the Apps 
   (usually means the RS must return a 'session scope auth token' to the TA that gets embedded in the Auth Token - and AppInfo endpoint must point TA to RS consent endpoints)
-- Trust only 'yourself' (RS) meaning each App will have to present the authentication token with a _desired_ scope, and the RS must be able to collect consent itself.
   (has App UI implications, as the App must now be able to render the RS consent screen)


User consent is a very important part of this kind of system, to be sure - but attempting to solve the "entire problem for all ecosystems" will probably only lead to pain and sadness ;) So I am assuming the NAPPS spec will only try to define 'consent extension points', where any particular ecosystem can expand on to fit their own consent / privacy model.

I hope this was useful.

Thanks, 

MV 






On Mar 20, 2014, at 8:38 AM, Paul Madsen 
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paul.madsen@gmail.com" target="_blank"><paul.madsen@gmail.com></a>
wrote:


</pre>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          type="cite">
                                                          <pre>Attending

Paul
John
Chuck
Ashish

1) Ashish reported back on the RSA F2F

Attending were Mike & Caleb from MSFT, some MobileIron & Airwatch folks, somebody from OneLogin

Ashish asked for people's assessment of group value. Group agreed there was a need and worthwhile 

Microsoft challenging the value - claiming that something like this would be eventually be addressed by the OS vendors. Group feels the interapp piece (that the OS vendors will address) is just half the problem, the other half is the on-the-wire protocol between TA & AS 

In offline conversations with John, MSFT reps agreed that there was value in defining the on-the-wire protocol. 

Perhaps we can clarify that we don't intend to mandate a particular interapp protocol

Ashish adds there was agreement that we need more ISVs participating , action item was to reach out to contacts at the SaaS. 

John indicates he talked to Layer7 at MWC and that they feel they have comparable functionality

2) Discussion of the different models for token-chaining, and how/where the complexity of dealing with token chaining sits - does the TA deal with the exchange, or does the app deal with the exchange

John points out the implications of the trust models, and who needs to know what? 

AI - John will put together a summary of the different models and the pros/cons of each

Ashish asked about a model where the trust and token exchange happens at the AS level

Permuations appear to be 

- TA asks downstream AS for AT
- Downstream app asks downstream AS for AT
- Upstream AS asks downstream AS for AT

Implications for consent gathering

2) Discussion about the use case of bridging from the TA into web app SSO

Everybody has a different way to do this

Ashish points out an issue about how to get session info into a web clip....

Different UI implications/models

AI - Paul will start a thread on the use case on the NAPPS list

3) Chuck remains concerned about the consent model - believes the spec as it is is primarily focused on authentication, and not about authz.

Different consent models differ on where the consent happens, at the TA or at the AS

John points out that this relates to the lack of the 'pre-authenticated authz request' 

Chuck wants their server involved in collecting consent, and wants that to happen JIT and not a priori 

John points out that this ties in with the bootstrap to browser app piece

AI - Chuck will summarize his thoughts on consent (where & when) on the list

Meeting closed










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