<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">OK<div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 1, 2015, at 1:42 PM, Lodderstedt, Torsten <<a href="mailto:t.lodderstedt@telekom.de" class="">t.lodderstedt@telekom.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Hi John,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">your proposal sounds very good to me. Would you propose text for the authentication spec?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">best regards,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Torsten.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">Von:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>John Bradley [<a href="mailto:jbradley@mac.com" class="">mailto:jbradley@mac.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Gesendet:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sonntag, 29. November 2015 21:06<br class=""><b class="">An:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Torsten Lodderstedt<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Lodderstedt, Torsten; <a href="mailto:openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net" class="">openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Betreff:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Openid-specs-mobile-profile] ACR values<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Yes the document currently calls it singe factor, but that is probably to general.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">This is one reason I prefer abstract names like silver and gold, that way as technology changes you don’t need to change the protocol.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">So lets describe them and pick names after we agree on the description.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Silver:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The user is authenticated via possession of a device (phone) containing a secret key. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The user is required to provide no additional authentication information to use the key.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The user is interactively prompted to confirm the authentication. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The storage mechanism for the secret key and other relevant authentication information is returned via the ”amr” value.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The user is not re-prompted if prompt is not login and max_age is more than the elapsed time since the user last authenticated at this acr<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Gold:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The user is authenticated via possession of a device (phone) containing a secret key. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The user is required to provide additional authentication information via a biometric, pin code or other appropriate factors such as bluetooth paring with a watch.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Given suitable Mobile device management unlocking the device is also sufficient along with user confirmation of desire to authenticate.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The storage mechanism for the secret key and other relevant authentication information is returned via the ”amr” value.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The user is not re-prompted if prompt is not login and max_age is more than the elapsed time since the user last authenticated at this acr<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Platinum:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The user is authenticated via possession of a device (phone) containing a secret key.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The user is required to provide additional authentication information via a local biometric, or a remote paring with a biometric capable device. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">A pin or second biometric as a third factor may also be required.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Biometric device unlock may be used, but only in conjunction with a pin code or second biometric.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The user is always prompted to authenticate irrespective of the values of prompt and max_age.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">So all 3 require possession of the phone. Gold and Platinum require a second factor to unlock the phone. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Platinum forces the use of a pin or second biometric.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I put in Platinum for argument to show that it is additional risk mitigations that we are interested in, <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">as a single biometric like facial on a phone can be spoofed quite easily. (talking to Knock Knock they didn’t find any that they had confidence in as part of UAF if the attacker had a photo of the subject’s face)<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">So in the ACR<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">[ “Platinum”, “Gold”, “Silver”] would cause the device to do the highest one posable but if it is incapable fall back to a lower one.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">If we leave the ACR query parameter as is rather than changing it to essential then <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">[ “Platinum” ] would do exactly the same thing.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">If we add the essential semantic to the ACR values then<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">[ “Platinum” ] would return an error if the device can’t support a biometric. You would need to always list them all unless you are willing to get an error.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">That is my best attempt at trying to describe the scale of risk mitigation represented by the ACR that we are talking about.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">John B.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Nov 29, 2015, at 3:30 PM, Torsten Lodderstedt <<a href="mailto:torsten@lodderstedt.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">torsten@lodderstedt.net</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Hi John,<br class=""><br class="">I understand your argument. It's always a trade off between being specific (and risking failed authentication attempts) and being to generic (and loose control). I think there is no difference between having two LOAs + 2 AMRs on one side or having 3 LOAs, if the AMR is required from a RP's perspective to assess the authentication. But let's assume we go with two LOAs for single and 2 factor authn.<br class=""><br class="">I think just single factor won't be enough, as Mobile Connect (according to my understanding/interpretation) is about password-less single factor authentication. So I assume we need to have a certain special single factor authentication ACR value.<br class=""><br class="">best regards,<br class="">Torsten.<o:p class=""></o:p></p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Am 28.11.2015 um 22:19 schrieb John Bradley:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Operators will certainly have some users with devices that store keys in hardware (SIM) and others that are using software, and probably some that are using the HW keychain unlocked by a biometric or a pin. <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The point I am trying to make is that a user has one device. It will or will not have HW protection for the key. If the RP is too specific about what it asks for all it will do is cause failed authentications.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I was counting click OK to the SIM applet as single factor (Because it is). In the single factor case the AMR would differentiate between a SIM with click OK and a password or something else.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">We can send more specific information back in the amr about what happened.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The acr in the request shouldn’t be too specific because that just forces the IdP to return an error vs something useful.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I am bading these observations on the three levels in the current document. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Two are effectively the same from a request point of view. Give me a authentication where the user needs to locally authenticate to the device. The only diffrence will be how the key is protected in the hardware and that depends on the device. The RP can’t influence that in a meaningful way during authentication.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">So far I don’t see having more than two LoA in the request as being useful from the description.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">What behaviour at the IdP would the third one cause different from the second?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">It may be that there is something, but it is not captured in the description. That is what I am looking for.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">John B.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Nov 28, 2015, at 2:51 PM, Lodderstedt, Torsten <<a href="mailto:t.lodderstedt@telekom.de" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">t.lodderstedt@telekom.de</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Hi John,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">why doesn’t it make sense for a RP to specifically ask for HW protected keys? I could imagine some operators use software-based keys (which should be ok in some cases) whereas the majority will store them on the SIM card.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">And by the way: It’s not just about asking the OP to perform 2nd factor authentication or accept single factor. In the case of Mobile Connect, it is also desirable to ask for certain factors (or better said prohibit knowledge alone) in the single factor case. The predominant example is inherence in the case of SIM applet (click ok).</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">best regards,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Torsten.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">Von:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">John Bradley [<a href="mailto:jbradley@mac.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:jbradley@mac.com</a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Gesendet:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Freitag, 27. November 2015 20:02<br class=""><b class="">An:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Lodderstedt, Torsten<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Betreff:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Openid-specs-mobile-profile] ACR values</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">That is true but normally the levels are not defined in a protocol document. They would be in a trust framework document that details how to conform to them including all the legal and business practice agreements.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">All we can say is that all of that is dealt with someplace else and the URI indicate the means by which the subject was most recently authenticated.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">One of the hard things with LoA is that better might be subjective. There is no guarantee in general that one is better than another as they might theoretically mitigate different risks.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">For MODRNA LoA it looks like we are going to have three dimensions for what would normally all be bound up in a single loa number in 29115/SP800-63<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">a) Identtiy proofed [ “True” , “False”] (can the IdP legally identify the subject)<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">b) Proof of Possession [ “True” , “False”] (in 800-63 PoP is required for LoA 4, but we can deal with it separately in the protocol)<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">c) Strength of Primary credential [ “single factor”, “multi-factor soft-key”, “ multi-factor hard key” ]<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">In the first stage we are only asserting non proofed subjects.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">That gives us three levels now and eventually six to plan for.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">In reality the user will have a token with a HW or software key, so as a RP asking specifically for one or the other doesn’t make much sense.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">As a RP I think that you want to be able to say force the user to 2nd factor if there current login is single factor, or I will take what the user is logged in as.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Lets assume for the moment that amr in the response can differentiate between hard and soft keys.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">That would leave us with two acr values to ask for. Lets call them 1F and 2F for the moment. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">That would give us:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">[ “1F” ] == Give me what the user has logged in at, don’t force step up.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">[ “2F” , "1F" ] == Force the user to do two factor if there device supports it, but I will take single if that is all there device supports.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">[ “2F” ] == Force the user to do two factor if there device supports it, return an error if 2F is not available.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">In the response the “amr” will indicate if the authentication was with HW or SW based keys.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">It strikes me that trying to add another LoA complicates things for the RP. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I suspect that for initial login most sites will want [ “1F” ] and do [ “2F” , "1F" ] for step up around specific transactions. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Banks will want [ “2F” , "1F" ] all the time.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Asking for [ “2F” ] on its own is not as useful as asking for [ “2F” , "1F" ] at-least if you get back a LoA with “1F” then you know it is probably the correct person as opposed to any random person who could generate an error, at that point you can guide them through some other step up or tell them to use a different device etc. However some people may have limited RP logic and be happier with an error.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">So as an example if the user has authenticated with “2F” but the RP asks for [ “1F” ] then we would expect the IdP not to prompt (assuming max-age is ok) and return “2F” as the acr in the response along with a amr indicating if the key was HW or SW protected. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">It might make sense in non modrna cases to have a RP specifically ask for a HW backed multi-factor. The IdP could force the user to use a smart card with match on card biometrics on a different computer, rather than using the soft token on the phone. How ever I don’t think that is our use-case, and having an extra thing the RP can ask for just adds to the complexity.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">If we need to have three for some political reason I would have the IdP treat the two multi-factor as equivalent in the request, and only differentiated in the response.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Thoughts on paring it down to two?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">John B.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Nov 27, 2015, at 2:19 PM, Lodderstedt, Torsten <<a href="mailto:t.lodderstedt@telekom.de" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">t.lodderstedt@telekom.de</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">As a RP, I would prefer to send the minimal level I would like the OP to fulfill, e.g. mc2, and I would accept if the OP did better, i.e. authenticated using mc3.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I think it is evenly important to be clear on the meaning of the levels. Otherwise, the RP does not know what to expect and the OP does not know exactly know what to implement.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Best regards,</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Torsten.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">Von:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">John Bradley [<a href="mailto:jbradley@mac.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">mailto:jbradley@mac.com</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Gesendet:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Freitag, 27. November 2015 15:14<br class=""><b class="">An:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Lodderstedt, Torsten<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:philippe.clement@orange.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">philippe.clement@orange.com</a>;<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net</a><br class=""><b class="">Betreff:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Openid-specs-mobile-profile] ACR values</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">That is not the normal behaviour for Connect when using the query parameter. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">We had much debate at the time. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">We can achieve that with server side policy however. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">What I think people want is to send a list in preference order eg [ “mc-2”, “mc-3” ] <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The IdP must try to do the highest one in the list that the users device supports, if that fails then the IDP will return an error.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">That is the semantic if you use make it an essential claim in the request object.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Normally if the device only supported “mc-1” or “mc-4" the IdP could try that and return it if successful. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I suppose that we could say that if the user can be authenticated at a higher level by the IdP it can do that and return a lower level from the requested list.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">This is probably more important to be clear on than the levels themselves in some ways.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Is that the behaviour we want to require of the IdP?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">John B.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Nov 27, 2015, at 8:51 AM, Lodderstedt, Torsten <<a href="mailto:t.lodderstedt@telekom.de" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: purple;" class="">t.lodderstedt@telekom.de</span></a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class="">>If the IdP cant supply one of the acr values by getting the user to step up then it must return a failed authentication<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>attempt.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" class=""> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I think this is the desired behavior for MODRNA</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Openid-specs-mobile-profile mailing list<br class=""></span><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: purple;" class="">Openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net</span></a><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></span><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-mobile-profile" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: purple;" class="">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-mobile-profile</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Openid-specs-mobile-profile mailing list<br class=""></span><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: purple;" class="">Openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net</span></a><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></span><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-mobile-profile" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: purple;" class="">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-mobile-profile</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">_______________________________________________<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class="">Openid-specs-mobile-profile mailing list<o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Openid-specs-mobile-profile@lists.openid.net</a><o:p class=""></o:p></pre><pre style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';" class=""><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-mobile-profile" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-mobile-profile</a></pre></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>