[Openid-specs-heart] Proposal for reworked use case AND use case template
Identity Coach
coach at digitalidcoach.com
Tue Aug 4 15:50:59 UTC 2015
For me, one of the key distinctions is that banking is "valuable stuff
that is /about/ us/acts as our agents" (external) vs health care, which
is "valuable stuff that /IS/ us." Being one step removed, banking is
much easier to game with an industry of middlemen, as systems go. Health
care as an industry is trying to game the same system, but with people
who have more/deeper to lose, and a Regulatorium that is ostensibly
created to protect us. (No comment about how well this is working, just
pointing to intent.)
j.
On 8/4/15 8:40 AM, Eve Maler wrote:
> Well, that didn't at all have the intended efffect. I'm sorry. Let me
> try again.
>
> I'm *not at all* saying we should follow the financial industry's
> model! I'm saying that when they transfer data "behind people's
> backs", they have exactly the same trouble the healthcare industry has
> in identifying people. When an industry actually invites people in to
> the process, and gathers their consent, and learns more about them,
> then the "online person" is a participant in the process and is the
> "head" of their own account. That gives them the beginnings of control.
>
> (From this point, you have a technological fulcrum on which to place
> individual control in future.)
>
> *Eve Maler
> *ForgeRock Office of the CTO | VP Innovation & Emerging Technology
> Cell +1 425.345.6756 | Skype: xmlgrrl | Twitter: @xmlgrrl
> Join our ForgeRock.org OpenUMA <http://forgerock.org/openuma/> community!
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 8:17 AM, Moehrke, John (GE Healthcare)
> <John.Moehrke at med.ge.com <mailto:John.Moehrke at med.ge.com>> wrote:
>
> I find it very troubling when the financial industry is brought up
> as an example that healthcare should follow. From a user
> experience, I agree with Adrian that it seems to be a well
> ‘consumer centric’ model. The reality is that they are not
> consumer centric, they act only by force of consumer and often
> with payment for transaction fee.
>
>
>
> But the financial industry are dealing with fungible assets that
> can easily be insured and they have regulated maximum damages.
> Healthcare has NOTHING close to this. Further the only reason that
> the financial industry communicates is because they are moving
> your money, an asset they get to leverage far beyond the kind of
> analytics that the healthcare community is often accused of doing
> (some rightly so). The financial world does not communicate in any
> way to your benefit, they are perfectly happy having fragmented
> and non-aligned assets. Where as in healthcare there is an
> expectation that your current treatment plan is chosen based on
> your full medical history, without any piece of information
> misunderstood (malpractice).
>
>
>
> This said, I am not against the goal that Adrian is promulgating.
> I am just frustrated at the overbroad statements about how
> wonderful the financial industry is.
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> *From:*Openid-specs-heart
> [mailto:openid-specs-heart-bounces at lists.openid.net
> <mailto:openid-specs-heart-bounces at lists.openid.net>] *On Behalf
> Of *Eve Maler
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 04, 2015 10:03 AM
> *To:* Adrian Gropper
>
>
> *Cc:* openid-specs-heart at lists.openid.net
> <mailto:openid-specs-heart at lists.openid.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Openid-specs-heart] Proposal for reworked use case
> AND use case template
>
>
>
> Adrian, your patient vs. banking identity explanation was really
> good -- I'm going to steal that one. :-) Warning, musings on
> identity and proofing below. Hope they're marginally
> interesting/helpful.
>
>
>
> In the world of marketing data brokerage, they deal in heuristic
> data about people all the time but don't have to (or, maybe, even
> want to) precisely identify a unique human being. (If you ever
> want to be weirded out, read about Acxiom Personicx
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.oceanoutdoor.com_site_wp-2Dcontent_uploads_ORCGuideToPersonicx.pdf&d=AwMFaQ&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=B4hg7NQHul-cxfpT_e9Lh49ujUftqzJ6q17C2t3eI64&m=BjxAvFx8QWs4XC6iU1PL1lgMCP4YVzdBhh4vu2fWdeU&s=QtcwptaLBxuQh2WeoBs1IhxRnZzLuQe2ljx-h2VKN4A&e=> psychographics
> codes. I had someone in the field tell me she looked "herself" up
> in the data warehouse. She said, "They knew my bra size.")
>
>
>
> In the world of credit data brokerage, they have much the same
> problem as the "offline patient identity" world does, though with
> a somewhat different regulatory environment. If you're in the US
> and you want to try and look up the annual free credit scores that
> you're entitled to by law, think about the trouble you have to go
> through to identify yourself with multiple-choice questions about
> your past financial life. Outside the US, it's even harder because
> privacy laws limit the sources of data. As demographics shift and
> more and more people get comfortably online/mobile, identification
> gets easier because an organization funneled someone through the
> process once and now owns the "hygiene" of that credential over
> time -- /everyone/ can amortize the investment. However, of
> course, data privacy gets more challenging.
>
>
> *Eve Maler
> *ForgeRock Office of the CTO | VP Innovation & Emerging Technology
> Cell +1 425.345.6756 <tel:%2B1%20425.345.6756> | Skype: xmlgrrl |
> Twitter: @xmlgrrl
> Join our ForgeRock.org OpenUMA
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__forgerock.org_openuma_&d=AwMFaQ&c=IV_clAzoPDE253xZdHuilRgztyh_RiV3wUrLrDQYWSI&r=B4hg7NQHul-cxfpT_e9Lh49ujUftqzJ6q17C2t3eI64&m=BjxAvFx8QWs4XC6iU1PL1lgMCP4YVzdBhh4vu2fWdeU&s=4_28RyfGvM2JnAA2r2PC92ouszRmNenZ1TmMlmOhcg8&e=>
> community!
>
>
>
>
...
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