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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>I also have the same concerns, a non assert also relates to the patent and the usage in the patent and thus if the WG takes on this effort the usage may change which voids the on-assert <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> Openid-specs-fapi <openid-specs-fapi-bounces@lists.openid.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Brian Campbell via Openid-specs-fapi<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 10, 2021 8:03 AM<br><b>To:</b> FAPI Working Group List <openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net><br><b>Cc:</b> Brian Campbell <bcampbell@pingidentity.com>; Travis Spencer <travis@curity.io><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Openid-specs-fapi] Presentation about hypermedia login API<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>I'm curious then why there's the fuss around Implementers Draft versions of specs and how they provide intellectual property protections? Or what's different about that vs. this non-assert agreement? Why are the Implementers Draft IPR protections needed if there's a non-assert agreement? Clearly there's something I'm not understanding (even as not a lawyer). <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 1:26 AM Nat Sakimura via Openid-specs-fapi <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal>So, just to be clear, Curity has signed FAPI WG IPR Contribution agreement as seen in <a href="https://openid.net/wordpress-content/uploads/2020/07/Curity-AB_FAPI-WG_Contribution-Agreement_2020-07-28.pdf" target="_blank">https://openid.net/wordpress-content/uploads/2020/07/Curity-AB_FAPI-WG_Contribution-Agreement_2020-07-28.pdf</a>. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The technology being patented is not a problem for OIDF WGs as the IPR Contribution Agreement is a non-assert agreement. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Looking forward to talking with you later today. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best, <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Nat<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 4:44 PM Travis Spencer via Openid-specs-fapi <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for clarifying, John. That helps a lot. We are OK with the<br>non-assert. We think that a protocol that's patent will protect us all<br>from trolls that might come in after a spec is made. That's why we<br>patented it and are now talking about working on it with the group.<br><br>On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 12:19 AM John Bradley via Openid-specs-fapi<br><<a href="mailto:openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> Hi Travis,<br>><br>> Hope you are well.<br>><br>> You signed the working group IPR agrement.<br>><br>> You can see the list of agrements at: Executed Contribution Agreements | OpenID<br>><br>> Specificly for Curity: <a href="http://openid.net/wordpress-content/uploads/2020/07/Curity-AB_FAPI-WG_Contribution-Agreement_2020-07-28.pdf" target="_blank">http://openid.net/wordpress-content/uploads/2020/07/Curity-AB_FAPI-WG_Contribution-Agreement_2020-07-28.pdf</a><br>><br>> The contribution licence agrements that you are looking at are for opensource project contributions.<br>><br>> The Working group IPR unlike IETF dosen't require pattent disclosures.<br>><br>> It however requires a non assert over all openID specifications the WG produces.<br>><br>> If you are OK with that then you can discuss what you want.<br>><br>> If you are contributing code at some point then the other IPR contribution may be required.<br>><br>> I hope that helps.<br>><br>> John B.<br>><br>> On 2/9/2021 5:14 PM, Travis Spencer via Openid-specs-fapi wrote:<br>><br>> It can be checked with the secretary that Curity AB has signed the<br>> CONTRIBUTOR AGREEMENT on July 27, 2020 that states:<br>><br>> 1. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. OIDF intends to make Specifications (defined<br>> in the OpenID Intellectual Property Rights Policy) broadly available<br>> for implementation by others without a fee. To facilitate this,<br>> Contributor grants certain rights in (and makes other commitments<br>> regarding) its intellectual property. These grants and commitments are<br>> set forth in the OpenID Intellectual Property Rights Policy<br>> (“Policy”), which is fully incorporated into this Agreement by this<br>> reference.<br>><br>> The Policy in that term can be found at<br>> <a href="https://openid.net/intellectual-property/" target="_blank">https://openid.net/intellectual-property/</a> or more specifically<br>> <a href="https://openid.net/wordpress-content/uploads/2017/06/OIDF-Policy-IPR-Policy-Final-6-19-2017.pdf" target="_blank">https://openid.net/wordpress-content/uploads/2017/06/OIDF-Policy-IPR-Policy-Final-6-19-2017.pdf</a><br>> which states:<br>><br>> VI.Patents.1.Limited Patent Promise.Each Contributor hereby<br>> irrevocably makes the following promise (on behalf of itself and its<br>> Related Entities) without the requirement of any monetary compensation<br>> or any additional terms and conditions:Contributor (“I” or “me”)<br>> hereby irrevocably promises not to assert any Necessary Claims [claims<br>> of any patent or patent application] against any other entity (“you”)<br>> for making, using, selling, offering for sale, importing, or<br>> distributing any Implementation or offering any product or service to<br>> the extent it contains or uses a Compliant Portion [those specific<br>> portions of a product ... to the extent that they implement and are<br>> compliant with all relevant portions of a particular Implementers<br>> Draft or Final Specification]...<br>><br>> The listed representatives in our signed CONTRIBUTOR AGREEMENT are me,<br>> Mark Dobrinic, Jacob Ideskog, Renato Athaydes, and Pedro Felix. The<br>> initial Working Group is "FAPI".<br>><br>> It is not listed on<br>> <a href="https://openid.net/intellectual-property/contribution-license-agreement/" target="_blank">https://openid.net/intellectual-property/contribution-license-agreement/</a><br>> but I think that is because that page is outdated (or because that<br>> page is not listing what I think it's listing).<br>><br>> IANAL either so please let me know if we can present tomorrow or not.<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 8:33 PM Brian Campbell<br>> <<a href="mailto:bcampbell@pingidentity.com" target="_blank">bcampbell@pingidentity.com</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> IANAL but in a previous/linked message on this topic said the following, which seems like it might have implications beyond the scope of the OIDF contribution agreement. But, again, IANAL.<br>><br>> Our API is patent pending, but we're willing to offer royalty free use<br>> of our invention should any of its embodiments end up in a spec.<br>><br>><br>><br>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 12:03 PM Travis Spencer via Openid-specs-fapi <<a href="mailto:openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 6:40 PM ANTHONY NADALIN <<a href="mailto:nadalin@prodigy.net" target="_blank">nadalin@prodigy.net</a>> wrote:<br>><br>> I assume there are no IPR issues when presenting to this group?<br>><br>> The WG has an IPR agreement, and we're members who have agreed to that.<br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Openid-specs-fapi mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:Openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">Openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-fapi" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-fapi</a><br>><br>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any file attachments from your computer. Thank you.<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Openid-specs-fapi mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:Openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">Openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-fapi" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-fapi</a><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Openid-specs-fapi mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:Openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">Openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net</a><br>> <a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-fapi" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-fapi</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>Openid-specs-fapi mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">Openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-fapi" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-fapi</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Nat Sakimura<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>NAT.Consulting LLC<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>Openid-specs-fapi mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net" target="_blank">Openid-specs-fapi@lists.openid.net</a><br><a href="http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-fapi" target="_blank">http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-fapi</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI",sans-serif;color:#555555;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in'>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any file attachments from your computer. Thank you.</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>