[Openid-specs-fapi] External : Open Banking NG

Anders Rundgren anders.rundgren.net at gmail.com
Wed Oct 30 19:43:47 UTC 2019

Thanx Chris for the prompt response!

I must admit that I'm not particularly versed in CIBA but have hands-on experience with Open Banking APIs.

My target is not related to any regulations but rather how to create something bigger like this: https://empsa.org/
Is that even possible without a standardized mobile client?

The proposed solution also supports Gas station payments although few (if any) Open Banking APIs are currently ready for this task.
It would be interesting to know how this is intended to work with the current Open Banking scheme.
does not shed much light on that topic.

Last but not least the proposed solution stick to the established payment card notion using SVG for visual representation.
Here is a sample: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6591608038912729088/

I'm open for working with the OBIE in case there is any interest in this.

Kind regards,
Anders Rundgren

On 2019-10-30 17:35, Chris Michael wrote:
> Hi Anders
> The OBIE example below is where all non-essential steps are removed from a redirect authentication. This solves some use cases but, as you state, is notb as good as Apple Pay, especially in a Point of Sale scenario. It would however work for an app-app (e.g. online purchase via a mobile app) scenario.
> As I am sure you are away, the CIBA standard we developed with/by FAPI WG members does allow much better UX which gets closer to Apple Pay. This is also included in the OBIE standard. However, no ASPSPs are implementing this yet, as it has not been specifically required by any regulators at this time.
> Here is a working demo of one of the 4 x supported CIBA flows
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXiRhCAYRCE
> I like your concept below, however creating additional TPP roles may take some time for the industry to get to grips with
> Chris Michael
> Head of Technology
> +44 7767 372277
> http://www.openbanking.org.uk
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> ________________________________________
> From: Openid-specs-fapi <openid-specs-fapi-bounces at lists.openid.net> on behalf of Anders Rundgren via Openid-specs-fapi <openid-specs-fapi at lists.openid.net>
> Sent: 30 October 2019 15:49
> To: Financial API Working Group List
> Cc: Anders Rundgren
> Subject: External : [Openid-specs-fapi] Open Banking NG
> Hi FAPIers,
> This picture from OBIE shows a payment scenario that is very far from Apple Pay:
> https://standards.openbanking.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/4.1.1-Wireframe.png
> Yeah, using various kinds of "workarounds and fixes" it can surely be improved, but will that really scale?
> I have updated the "Dual-mode" Open Banking API proposal which if implemented should make Open Banking payments entirely "on par" with Apple Pay but with the added advantage that it builds on A2A (Account-to-Account) transactions which also is compliant with P2P (Person-to-Person) payments:
> https://cyberphone.github.io/doc/payments/dual-mode-openbanking-api.pdf
> To make the proposal more acceptable I have introduced an (optional) TTP role which (unlike PIS) is already known by payment professionals; the Payment Gateway.
> Thanx,
> Anders
> On 2019-10-22 07:16, Anders Rundgren wrote:
>> A months has passed and it begins looking quite promising:
>> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/andersrundgren_open-banking-api-saturn-my-subversive-activity-6591608038912729088-31sr
>> Updated: https://cyberphone.github.io/doc/saturn/openbanking-api-for-saturn.pdf
>> Anders
>> On 2019-09-21 10:26, Anders Rundgren wrote:
>>> This is probably not a use case people subscribed to this mailing list is particularly interested in.
>>> However, there are a couple of reason why this is a relevant issue:
>>> - If the bank can use the API themselves it will likely be better maintained
>>> - If the consumer payment market rather prefers schemes like Swish, TWINT, MobilePay https://empsa.org/ , <https://empsa.org/> FAPI and similar Open Banking APIs could fall in importance
>>> FWIW, I have just started (yesterday...) to investigate how Open Banking APIs could work in a local scenario:
>>> https://github.com/cyberphone/swedbank-psd2-saturn
>>> Swedbank uses the Berlin Group API but I guess the differences (on a higher level) compared to FAPI are not that big.
>>> Anyway, since I'm not versed in OAuth2, I wonder if anybody out there have any ideas how to "patch" OAuth2 in such a way that an Open Banking API implementation could work in both local and remote mode without moving [too] many parts?  Local mode = trusted service not needing user consent.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Anders
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