[Openid-specs-fapi] Taking Credit Transfer to the POS

Anders Rundgren anders.rundgren.net at gmail.com
Thu Nov 16 09:05:40 UTC 2017

On 2017-11-15 21:40, Tom Jones wrote:
Dear Tom,

This is a complex matter and pretty unsuited for discussing over email but I'm essentially claiming that FAPI/OpenBanking/STET and Saturn are complementary systems having _almost no functional overlap_.

 > Having been involved in may 3rd party payment project, I believe you are far too optimistic.
 > There is no evidence that people want or need them.

Right, banks seem to prefer developing their own systems.  As we know, this leads to a fragmented payment landscape.  However, in this respect FAPI and Saturn have _identical_ goals; providing neutral and open standards.

 > I am not entirely clear what you mean by this sentence, but i believe it is
 > incorrect. EMV does give the payment initiator access to the user's credit card account.
 > "It is in this context worth noting that consumer payment are currently performed
 > through specific payment "rails" like EMV, /which do not rely on direct access to
 > accounts by external parties/."

Well, this is the most differentiating part of FAPI/OpenBanking/STET versus Saturn.

The former are based on operations performed in the context of a logged-in user, potentially having access to everything (aka "Banking").  Saturn OTOH, is (in similarity to EMV), based on account-specific cryptographic credentials ("keys"), which can [only] be used for authorizing a limited set of payment-related operations _outside_ of the banking environment.  Such authorizations behave pretty much like externally provided OAuth tokens.

This not so subtle difference has major implications on just about everything, where "taking the PISP out of the equation" probably is the most revolutionary/appalling consequence.

 > Peace ..tom


 > On Wed, Oct 11, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Anders Rundgren via Openid-specs-fapi <openid-specs-fapi at lists.openid.net <mailto:openid-specs-fapi at lists.openid.net>> wrote:
 >     Ladies & Gentlemen,
 >     This posting represents a somewhat diverging view on the utility of Open Banking/PSD2 type of APIs when applied to consumer payments.
 >     The main intent is highlighting a few issues that you may not be fully aware of.
 >     https://github.com/cyberphone/saturn/blob/master/PSD2.md#purpose-of-psd2 <https://github.com/cyberphone/saturn/blob/master/PSD2.md#purpose-of-psd2>
 >     Sincerely,
 >     Anders Rundgren
 >     Independent Payment System Architect/Developer
 >     _______________________________________________
 >     Openid-specs-fapi mailing list
 >     Openid-specs-fapi at lists.openid.net <mailto:Openid-specs-fapi at lists.openid.net>
 >     http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-fapi <http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs-fapi>

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